To think millions of litres of fuel shouldn't be wasted on sending a rocket to the moon

I think exploring space is a complete waste anyway. There are people out there literally starving to death, with no access to clean water, and we're sending people into outer space? For what? When you think of the number of people the cost of one single mission could feed, it's ridiculous.

I absolutely love Elon Musk. Clean energy entrepreneur, making humanity interplanetary. Massively innovating in two key industries. I love him.

Can I just state I’m interested in space and watching the launch, but I despise Elon Musk.

You go to that then. Grow your own veg (we did this as well. We made our own basil for some pesto. It was delicious)

Prior to internet and digital communication you'd find it hard to speak to relatives across the world. Harder to share media, see what's happening across the world and be a part of the global community. You go do you. We'll be living in the modern world and going to new heights.

Again before we had satellites there was no satellite TV, no GPS no satellite weather forecasting. All things we've benefited from.

What do you mean by “our place in the universe”?

I don’t understand. Do you mean we should still be living in a jungle and it was some kind of “sin” to figure out how to light a fire and make tools?

At what point does technology become “wrong” in your opinion?

It has improved human living standards (obviously with political problems about distribution of resources and managing transitions, but that is separate from science) at every stage of advancement. Decreased poverty and suffering. Enabled the poorest people in our society now to live with comforts beyond the wildest dreams of kings and emperors a few hundred years ago.

What is the objection?

If you want humanity to exist without our “engineering” then you are advocating that everyone goes back to living in caves trying to gather and hunt with an average life expectancy of 25 with no healthcare. And given the number of people now on Earth there isn’t enough land to sustain that and it would cause MORE environmental damage to other species than the current situation as well as meaning that more than half of the current human population die brutal deaths. Is this what you are advocating for?

I don’t understand what you are trying to suggest would be preferable to my suggestion that the only way to solve the current problems of humanity (and the other species on Earth) is by advancing our science further to solve the current problems.

What is it that you suggest we do instead? In order to take our place in what you consider to be “our place in the universe”? What does this involve and how will it work? How many people will die?

This is true.

The internet and phone are tools I use briefly in my day. I have no interest in them other than that. If they ceased to function then I'd probably benefit by not chatting about nonsense on here with people I'll never meet.

Nope. Never want to travel on a plane again.

I raise and grow 90% of my own food. The rest I buy from the local farm shop.
I have enough clothes to last me the 20 years I might possibly live.
My fuel grows in the local woodland and on my own land.
I'm happy to be here but everything comes to an end and if I die I die.

Not caring about technology is a freedom.

The vast majority of us posting here remember life with no internet or digital communications. It was not ‘completely shit’ I can assure you. In fact the 80s and the 90s/early 2000s (when we had the internet but in a far more benign form) were ace, especially for young people.

Prior to internet and digital communication life was just great.

As I've previously said, I'm not going to read about space travel or its benefits. It doesn't interest me. I'm very interested in growing my own veg. You should read up on that. People are interested in different things.

It's so heartening to see how happy and full of charm science makes you. I can see why you like Elon Musk.

In the case of the Artemis rocket heading to the moon about 400 tonnes of CO2. This comes from the boosters which burn 1000 tonnes of solid propellant which is itself about 15% carbon. The main engines just produce water vapour.

400 tonnes of CO2 is roughly the same amount that 100 cars would produce in a year of average driving.

So basically nothing in the grand scheme of things.

@ProjectHailMary I see your point, but I don't see why it's our job to figure it out, or why we would want to? Humanity is here without engineering our presence or evolution, so why do we need to interfere with our place in the universe? Wormholes are an interesting possibility, agreed, but if one turns up I will be keeping well out of it!

My points it that without humans having developed space technology you would not have GPS or the ability to phone people on other continents or transmit data to them via the internet because this technology relies on satellites which are…. in space.

The fact that you are posting on the internet and presumably use a mobile phone etc shows that you are “interested in it” otherwise why are you doing it?

Also presumably you never want to travel on a plane again, and don’t want the products you buy that are produced in other countries (most of your food, clothes, fuel) anymore as that would not be happening without these modern navigation systems which were developed…. from our exploration of space.

Yes, you would be substantially worse off than before the internet existed, because the global population was lower at that point and global interconnectedness of trade and reliance was far lower, so supply chain disruption that you would experience if these systems ceased to exist now that almost every company on Earth’s supply chain and communications rely on these systems would be more than you seem able to comprehend and you’d quickly find yourself with no power, food, or clean water, no way to contact anybody and roaming hordes of desperate people quite happy to attack you and take whatever you have unless you are physically strong enough/ well armed enough to repel them.

Sounds like a great plan for the summer.

I think I’d rather stick with scientific progress, personally.

Yeah right. Life with no internet and digital communications would be completely shit. You wouldn't be posting on here. So maybe there's one benefit that way.

There are many benefits. Maybe read about it.

If all civilisations that develop intelligence adopt your view then no intelligent life will ever progress beyond a certain point because “events” such as asteroids will wipe out all life on their planet and all knowledge they have gained will be lost. Perhaps this is the answer to the Fermi paradox — that the spaces between stars and solar systems are just too vast for technology to enable intelligent life to cross — but this is unlikely because intelligent life could progress into a different form that is mechanical etc. plus our best understanding of physics at present leaves open the possibility of wormholes therefore bending spacetime to reduce travel distances, and of course there is also the research into solar sails etc… humanity is really in its infancy as a civilisation if it can survive long enough to cross the threshold to interstellar travel. That is the key question, whether this is possible or not. We are still very primitive. I am always reminded of this, written by an MIT student back in 1991:

https://web.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/thinkingMeat.html

So many things we use today where invented because of the space program.
Little to no return is just plain wrong.

I don't care how it happens and if it all stops tomorrow I'll be no worse off than before the internet existed. I was content then and will be content if it disappears in a puff of smoke.

As I say, I'm not anti technology (e.g. ships) I am just not interested in space travel.

I'm really interested in space science and I think research is important, however not with the view to colonising somewhere other than Earth. If an asteroid hits Earth or the Sun dies out, so be it. I think it's arrogant to think humanity deserves more than our lifespan on Earth.

So interesting reading everyone's arguments. Different opinions are what makes the world go round! (Not literally...)

Yet you’re posting on the internet and presumably expect to be able to contact people on the other side of the world/ receive data from there rather than it being brought to you via a ship (ooops… more technology).

How do you think this happens exactly? How are data signals passed around the Earth given that it is a sphere so there is no direct straight line via which you could pick up a radio signal etc?

Irony is lost on some people.

I’m no scientist but I’m pretty certain that man made satellites in space are essential to global communications. There are resources on the moon that we are running out of too- isn’t there helium there? Surely we also need decent knowledge of space and rockets for missile defence systems?

It's one thing not knowing much about space exploration. I don't either. It's another thing to start or comment on a thread complaining about things that you had no clue aren't even true about space exploration because you didn't bother to do a quick Google.

Many of the posters on here, myself included, aren't anti science. They just aren't interested in and can't see the benefit of space travel.

I have lived off grid. It's bloody hard work. I'm grateful for my washing machine and electric light at the flick of a switch now. It doesn't mean I think space travel is exciting or necessary.

Elon is awesome. He does renewable energy and space exploration. I'd rather have 1 Elon than a 1000 of you.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

😆

The thing is, we could throw money at world poverty/famine/homelessness as we have in the past and it still wouldn’t solve the problems. That’s the sad part. There are too many greedy, corrupt people in the world (unfortunately most in positions of power).