Panorama - is the XL Bully Ban working

So didn’t you think about why rescues here won’t rehome to families with young children? I just don’t understand why you’d take that risk, horribly unfair to both the dogs and your family if it didn’t work out.

I agree I don’t think we should allow rescue dogs to be imported especially when you hear people are only doing it to get round the (on the whole sensible) rules rescues have here.

I’m in favour of an XL Bully cull - they absolutely terrify me and I think we need less dogs and better rules around breeding and licensing. I have a dog, he’s fear reactive on a lead after being attacked as a puppy. Before we had him (and I did a tonne of research) I didn’t really appreciate how much of a responsibility they are, how expensive they are and how you can only go so far with training. Ours is a traditionally easy breed who is usually a good family dog. As it turns out he’s not good with small children and he’s not ok with sitting in a pub or cafe and he’s shocking at the vets so we have to constantly train and work around all of that. Love him but he’s a massive 15 year plus commitment.

I don't have XL Bullies if that's what you're implying.

And it wasn't advice as such, it was just the rescues' policy of rehoming dogs with children. So unless I wanted to buy from breeders I had to look abroad for a rescue dog.

I got 2 from Spain because we have 7 children between us and, at the time (2014), some of the children were still quite young and no UK rescues would allow us to adopt. So we found a Spanish rescue group on Facebook and adopted 2 from them and fostered a few others.

As a small dog owner I am just as aware of sighthounds as I am xl bullies tbf.

my neighbours small dog was caught and ragged by a greyhound when I was a child. Never forgotten it.

It’s instinct for those dogs though, something doesn’t even “snap in their brain”. It’s literally bred into them- small furry, must chase and kill.

@YeOldeGreyhound the poor dog, that is awful. Some dogs like most companion breeds are just not going to fight back and defend themselves either, fighting isnt their nature. I always run cold at the woman who watched her sausage dogs ragged to death in front of her, on a beach I believe. I don't know how one would live with the anger.

Interesting to note that they are bred to be dog reactive and people passive (tho obvs sometimes it all goes horribly wrong people or dog!)

A woman in my village has some bull breed, prob not an XL but I dont make any distinction - I actively avoid any bull breeds and dont care if I cause offence. It stops and stares at my dog from a distance, might be harmless interest but I dont mess about - I leash my dog and exit the field or cross the street and walk far far away.

If all dogs were expected to display socialised behaviour, dogs displaying unsocialised behaviour would stand out.

Yes I am worried about being mauled by an XL bully. But its never happened. What does happen every day is some sort of undesirable incident with an untrained, unsocialised dog.

Yes, all dogs are indeed capable of killing other animals and humans. But not all dogs are deliberately bred to do exactly that. XL bullies are.

As pps have said, can't owners see the irony of their 'Oh, he/she is just a big softie!"? Yes, of course they are - right up to the moment something flips in their brains and they tear someone/something apart (see the horrible story of the poor dog which wandered into the path of two of these monsters, above).

I have not watched the program yet. I will in a bit.

I have not seen many XL bullys out and about. The last one I saw was muzzled and was with an older couple. Not the usual sort of people you would expect to have one if you believe in stereotyping the owners. The dog was outside a café, and sitting and giving paw for treats. Very well behaved. They also had a JRT. It was a cold day, and the owner of the cafe came out and said they could sit in the cafe if they wanted as dogs were welcome. They said no, as the JRT was a little shit and would misbehave 😂

I don't think the ban is working as people are still breeding them and selling them to unscrupulous people. If you love dogs, and love your own dog, surely you would want to keep them within the law, and safe? Not risk having them seized and PTS. I found it sad that some people opted to have them euthanised rather than neuter them, muzzle train them, and keep them on a lead.

My mum lives near a man who has 2 XL bully dogs. He has abided by all the rules, and by all accounts they are well behaved, and the owner is a nice chap too. A few months ago, he had his front door open and let his dogs out to jump in the boot of his car on his drive. A lady was walking her dog past his house at the time, and his dogs went straight for her dog and ripped it to shreds. It was alive but in such a bad state, they could not lift it into their car to get to a vet. A vet had to come out and put it out its misery on the path. The owner of the bullys tried to call them off but they just ignored him. Nothing will be done as the justice system is shit when it comes to dog on dog attacks.

That is the trouble with these dogs. They might be cuddle monsters and easy mannered, but if they turn you can't do anything about it. They are just too powerful. They can be shot several times and still keep attacking.
The ban might have lowered the attacks happening on people out in public, but it has not done much for people who get hurt by them in their own homes.

Sorry for the essay!

It's a difficult one for me

Personally I feel that in terms of "bad or dangerous dogs" it's more a case of negligent and shitty owners who do fuck all in terms of training said dog.

My best friend adopted an XL bully just before the ban (shed just had a litter and thankfully all were adopted into loving homes)

I genuinely feel safe as fuck around my friends dog. Honestly there is zero concern for my safety when I am around her and up close and in her personal space. She has boundaries, she doesn't cross them. My friend has put substantial time into training her, she's insured , she's always muzzled when out and about. And my friend pays privately for her to access a private field where she can run about unmuzzled and off lead.

Sadly there's a shit ton of people who don't give a shit, who don't train their dogs, who don't care about their welfare. And sadly in those cases I feel dogs will inevitably revert back to innate animal instincts, which unfortunately with this breed can include increased aggression.

But I can't, hand on heart, say I'd be ok with putting down my best friends XL bully down purely because of her breed. Genuinely that dog is as soft as a fucking brush and I honestly fear far more human men in terms of violence than I do her.. 😢

I rescued a dog (or 2) from Spain. One was a "feral" ex street dog. It's been so rewarding watching her confidence grow and turn into a wonderful best buddy.

Actually, I think it would be an ice breaker for a conversation to start if you said "I'm a bit scared of dogs".

There are a lot of very dim people on here that don’t know a lot about dogs.

I still see one of these on a regular basis around where I live. It's always on a lead but never wearing a muzzle. It always gives me the side-eye when I walk past it.

All dogs are capable of killing someone. We need to stop normalising reactive behaviour altogether. If you have a yorkie and it constantly barks and reacts to people and dogs, that needs to be deemed inappropriate behaviour in a dog and the dog is either rehomed to a particular environment or put down. If we never see reactive, untrained dogs, that will.become our norm.

Yes this is crazy
Why are we doing this? These dogs are feral!

Lots of people with untrained dogs let their dogs off the.lead. "don't worry she's friendly" as they chase their dog across the park.

If this wasnt a norm, it would be far easier to isolate those with untrained off leash dogs and reprimand them.

Personally I would ban the import of rescue dogs. Local to me they now just seem to permanently import from Romania dogs that have lived on the streets. They're on local Facebook looking for funds for their longest resident of 5 years who can't be homed with men, children, other animals or be left at any point. Also can't be walked reliably on a lead.

@Toastersandkettles The whole point is to reduce all the incentives to breed. We have too many dogs!

This article is interesting - https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/about-us/what-we-do/stories/uk-dog-population

Your working breeds idea is bonkers. I have a border collie from working lines and he was kicked off the farm as a pup because he's terrified of sheep and prefers napping to running around fields. Would he have just been euthanised under your plan?
I do believe in dog licences and mandatory ownership training before even owning a dog, then more training once you get the dog. I just can't see it being enforced anytime soon, or how it would even be possible given the amount of backyard breeding going on in this country.

Yes, if you lived on that street you wouldn’t be inclined to say ‘Actually we are fucking terrified of your dogs’ would you? You’d smile politely and nod, which is what I expect most people do. If I had small kids on that street I’d be fucking terrified.

But my point also was that this isn’t rare, this is happening all over. People like to feel the prestige of being able to tame these giant beasts, they’re picked for their size, for their muscle. They must know deep down that their dog is capable of killing someone, that is exactly why they own them.

Most small breeds of dog are fine to be neutered or spayed around six months. In larger breeds there can be health benefits to waiting until later.

However the main point of my suggestions is to stop people breeding from their pets and to stop people buying cute puppies and then abandoning them.

I come from a farming family where it was common for people to purchase a fully trained sheepdog that was ready to start work. The breeder/trainer put the hours in and made sure the dog was fit for purpose before selling it when it was around a year old and had at least learned the basics. Obviously the purchaser needed to continue that training, but it demonstrates how a responsible breeder can do the best for their dogs. That is what good breeders should do, not just churn out cute puppies to sell at a few weeks old, of unknown temperament and trainability.

That is a fascinating account - obviously lots of training, quality diet, some decent information being given out - but paired with some absolute idiocy and delusion. Three serious gut blockages and no change to feeding style? Deranged.

He is obviously strong, but in reality if just one of those dogs really decides to take off he won’t be stopping it, let alone walking all three together. Lots of off lead in public places - even if early, people tend to walk antisocial dogs early and late - he won’t be the only one doing it, and I wouldn’t want to meet them.

Dogs left in outside yard that I’ve no doubt they could get out of if they set their mind to it, with that fencing set-up with the half wall. Things clearly already on a knife edge between the two bitches (and in a couple of videos between the dog and the bitch, which is unusual and a measure of the breed), but if the young one doesn’t seriously injure the older one when she’s fully mature, I’d be amazed.

Presas (and bull breeds in general) are not my bag, but I can appreciate that particularly the young female is a stunning animal in optimal condition, and he must work very hard at that. It is still a bomb waiting to go off though, and I’m glad I don’t live near him.