Are other full-time working families finding there is nothing left?

families who are spending everything on essentials are a really bad sign for the economy. If nobody has any money to spend, then all those businesses like food delivery, hospitality, luxuries, holidays and even non-basic food are going to get squeezed out of business.

Somebody has to pay the taxes to support those who don't fancy a working day like yours. Think of their gratitude as you catch the train home this evening.

@sorryIdidntmeanto regardless of actual income I think any reduction in anyone’s standard of living is hard for them. Obviously politics of envy means if someone can’t afford a cleaner or eating out every week anymore then many will just think so what most people can’t afford that. But it’s a reduction in standard and no one is going to like that.

DH family lost out financially hugely when he was 18. His Father lost his job as assistant CEO of a global company. DH said Mum fell out of love when the money ran they divorced eventually she is still very bitter as had a huge drop in living standards. She had a housekeeper and a 2 million house on a private road in Surrey. She has her retirement in a 3 bed mock Georgian terrace and has to do her own cleaning. I mean it’s fine but it is a huge drop. When we suggested she shop at Morrisons instead of Waitrose you think we had suggested she go dumpster diving round the back of Lidl.

a normal life ... going backwards rather than getting ahead

We are in late-stage capitalism, where all the money has been sucked up to the few at the top ('trickle down' was always a big fat lie).

So our idea of what is a "normal life" is going to have to change. This base-line of normality has been declining since the 1970s, but the decline has been disguised by tech toys so we didn't notice we were getting poorer. A single man used to be able to support a SAHM and children on a single wage. If he was working class they likely had no car but could afford a week away in the UK. If he was middle class, they had a mortgage (on a single salary!), a car and maybe a holiday abroad.

Now it takes two parents working flat out, and many decide they can't afford a second baby. Yes, we have smartphones, a car each (on credit though), and for a while flights to Europe were cheap, but overall standards of living have been declining for decades.

So our idea of "normal" based on what our parents or even grandparents had needs a reality check.

Add to that we need to give up ideas of 'going backwards' or 'getting ahead'. It is not a law of nature or a law of physics that each generation should be better off than the one before. With global oil production having peaked, we are now into long-term decline in energy availability, so our whole society will have to get used to successive generations being poorer. There is no "progress".

I think this is the key:

Interest rates were so low for years and years that people felt they could buy more, without seeing the incredibly low rates as a temporary bonus. So prices go up

Investors buying houses - prices go up

Shared ownership schemes let you borrow more - prices go up

Housing shortages - prices go up

Everything is built on debt. Many young people want it all now and get into debt to do it. No one seems to accept they need to have less now and put money aside for a rainy day

And unfortunately the current housing crisis is going to be dwarfed by the looming pension crisis.

Does anyone breeze through life never having to struggle? I don't think very many of us do. I remember quite a few years with young children, working full-time, trying to improve our wreck of a house, and when all spending was for needs rather than wants.

Now, we are very comfortable. These days when you are establishing yourself are tough, but they pass.

The mortgage is now £700 a month. If I were paying my half, I would still not be destitute. I would still get by on my current salary

It didn't used to be this much of a struggle. IME, 30 years ago, a family with one decent earner (a teacher) could afford a decent 3 bed semi while the other parent either didn't work or worked part time so childcare wasn't an issue.

I think the fact that food/oil prices have risen exponentially has really been shrugged off by both this government (and previous one) and the supermarkets. My husband thinks nothing of feeding the dogs ham but yesterday I had to point out that a loaf of bread, packet of ham, some tomatoes and a tub of butter - just the basic ingredients to make a ham sandwich on which he snacks - cost more than a tenner. He doesn’t food shop, just moans that he keeps having to top up the ‘household account’. Both our kids will be at uni in Sept and I worry that they will struggle to feed themselves properly at those prices. My freezer is bursting with left over cheese, bread and other stuff that I would once have thrown away but now make sure I catch before the use by date and try to ‘save’.

We're doing ok; one ft the other around 30 hours a week very average salaries. BUT we don't live in the SE/London which is a key factor here. Also we bought our home in 2009 and took advantage of the low interest rates to overpay our mortgage and get the balance down so when the rates (inevitably) went up we could weather the storm. We are not rich, but we are able to do the modest things we want to do with our kids.

We are and it's getting DP down so much. We feel like we have less disposable income than when DD was at nursery costing £1,000 a month, with me working only two days a week and DP's salary £20k less. Prices of everything are soaring aren't they?

Just got our cat's insurance through, up from £900 a year to £1,800, for one example! We've now fixed our mortgage after waiting a year for rates to drop which obvs went tits up.

DP is a high earner and I always remind him that we're lucky compared to a lot of people but I get why he gets down about it - he works very hard, is away all the bloody time, stress levels high and he's a bit like what's the point.

I'm a freelancer, I'm working full-time and trying to earn as much as I can and also selling everything I can on Vinted as a side hustle.

Same. There'll be no family holiday this year, we don't eat out any more and very very rarely have a takeaway, we no longer have a cleaner, I haven't bought any new clothes for myself bar knickers for 2 years, I'm a company director and have taken a massive paycut to try and keep my business afloat, the bills keep rising, I have fuck all in my pension, the cash reserves in my business have gone trying to keep all my employees in their jobs, too... Two adults, 6 figure income, one child.

I freely admit I have among the broadest shoulders and I do not need your tiny violins, but I am also not willing to work this hard (8am to 11pm most days) to be taxed any more. It needs to come from the millionaires, billionaires and corporations now.

To be clear, I know people are struggling way more than me, and I do not resent anyone claiming any benefits at all. Our economy is wildly unbalanced. The very rich are getting even richer, off working people's backs, while telling us it's the fault of benefits leeches and immigrants. It really is not.

Mortgage is often the highest proportion of where wages goes. I bet if you had to find an extra £500 to £1000 a month, you'd notice a difference!

I think the commuting is part of it. Way before CoL crisis I worked out that my main "hobby" was commuting - it was the thing I was choosing to spend a huge chunk of my leisure time on every day and it didn't leave time for other hobbies. I applied for jobs further out, fully expecting to need to take a massive pay cut, but I was quickly offered a job that paid more than my London one and saved me ££ & hours in commuting. The difference in quality of life was immense.

We then moved further out & got a bigger detached house without increasing the mortgage. Again another quality of life improvement.

Focus on what levers you have - there may be more than you think. I was wrong to assume my job was only doable in London and I couldn't earn the same salary somewhere cheaper.

We get sweet FA from the banks taking that interest off you every month

Well they keep 370,000 people employed and pay £43bn in tax each year. That’s not an insignificant contribution to the UK economy.

I earn about £28k and I'm single with a teenager, but my ex pays the mortgage so dont have that to worry about

I'm not entitled to any benefits other than child benefit (which goes straight into DD's savings)

I'm not going on holidays, but I spend about the equivalent of a coffee every day on crap/takeaway over the week etc

I'm not well off, but I'm far from destitute! If you are on a six figure salary and struggling, you are doing something very wrong

Yep. People are sheep and bleating what they've read in the Mail/Times/Telegraph. Blame the people on benefits/immigrants etc. etc.

I am quite fearful for the future. The Iran/US/Israel war does not look like it will end any time soon and if it does not there will be a significant inflationary increase in food and other basics which will be difficult to afford. I am also afraid that we will see further tax rises to fund increased welfare and that mortgage rates will not fall as expected but rise. I fear being ever more squeezed and that none of these parties really cares very much about me or people like me.

Hey, money might be tight but at least we can still enjoy a nice bit of benefits bashing. It’s not much but being able to look down our noses at people while the rich criminals laugh at us is remains of life’s simple pleasures, even in these straightened times.

Theyve been doing that with House prices for the last 30 years
It used to be a third on Housing and bills
A third for savings and a third for fun
That’s been long gone since Housing and bills crept up to nearly 60%
And now literally the other 40% is going on food that’s it. It’s all gone.
If we were American, we’d be going into Debt
They qualify for credit cards, whether they’re working or not, whether there’s any affordability or not and then when the inevitable hits the fan this insecured Debt becomes secured Debt and they take the assets.
That will be us in the next 10 years

The Tories designed and introduced the UC system.

Anyway, those on UC have their benefits reduced by £4.35 per month for every £250 they have above £6k in savings.

You are angry at the wrong people.

lol, yeah they ususally "forget" about the other £30k worth of benefits they get in the form of housing benefit, universal credit, free school meals, free prescriptions, free dental care, PIP, child benefit, child support, council tax reduction yada yada yada I could go on.

When I was a working mother and my husband working hard too, we never had any spare money for several years and were actually very hard up for a time. There was an awful recession in the 1980s/90s which affected everything and nearly everyone. It was demoralising.

I do sympathise with you but it strikes me that people with young families all seem to go through the same. At the moment you are experiencing hardship, it marvellous to just be able to make ends meet every month. I know other young people like you.

All I can say is, it doesn't last forever. The cloud will lift, just hang on in there.

But, people who have been are now not…so, the cleaner and the coffee shop don’t get the business. If there’s a tightening of budgets at a higher level that trickles down. There are heaps of local businesses I’d like to still be in a position to support; beauticians, local clothes shops, coffee shops, local restaurants…these are the places that keep our community vibrant and alive. However, because I now have to give Tesco/ASDA 40% more for my shopping I can’t buy that coffee.

First thing I heard today in the office was today is pay day. We are million of people across the country having the same issue.
They are milking us.