Are other full-time working families finding there is nothing left?

What it comes down to is honest people aren't winning in the UK whether in work or on benefits. Dishonest and very rich people are winning and there's no accountability for failure.

Post office scandal sort of sums it up - normal ordinary honest subpostmasters had their money stolen from them often at great personal cost (for some of them, their lives, some of them sent to prison for the failure of the ruling classes) and STILL not all of them paid back and no prison for those responsible.

Corruption in the UK is absolutely rife, there is no consequence for those failing to do their job in the public sector (or private often, but the public sector is the worst IMO). The Post Office Scandal at least had some sunlight, but even then nothing has happened in terms of accountability. It's a story that is repeated everywhere. There needs to be a drastic change. Unfortunately that might end up being Reform.

Well, even Thatcher's government recognised the need to allow people to have a certain amount of savings. In 1980 the limit was set at £2000 (£8,695.32 in today's money) with no deductions off benefit.

💯
We didn't have kids for a long time because we wanted to pay off our cars, have a (mortgaged) home rather than the worry of renting, we had savings and both work FT. After having our kids the COL erupted at great speed, our fixed rate mortgage ended and the rates had gone way up, we ended up in debt due to medical / household repairs. All unforseen things that happened in a very short timeframe. We planned, we worked, we had a buffer but it all crashed at the same time.

I said "I would like a holiday" not that I deserve one but thank you for your input

Presumably you only work full-time during term though? So realistically you're part-time if you average your working hours (and therefore salary) across the full year. I don't think it's surprising in that case that you can't provide for a family of 5 without state support.

I think the issue lies in your expectations.

I work full-time. Self-employed. Only earn around 40K but no mortgage.

I come from poverty and my current standard of living is OK. Not lavish. Nothing like most on here expect. Slightly larger than average terraced house. Old car, no finance. Don't have annual holidays. I could afford one if I wanted but I've been there, done that and they're frequently not good, money pissed up the wall in fact. I'm not particularly driven by new clothes. Could have them if I wanted.

No judgement from me about those wanting a more lavish life. More power to you. But I think the expectation of a 'better' life and not being able to afford is it the key here. I have a worse life (I'm sure that would be the general perception) but to me, being able to afford my bills, not struggling financially, is good.

This is Truth for most people.

While those at the very top with millions in the bank pay very little and shout angrily every time it is rightfully suggested they contribute more in taxes.

No I don't! If only!

While I don’t disagree that there is enormous wealth inequality in this country and that people are finding things difficult there are things that no one takes into consideration. Firstly the 2008 financial crisis caused by the banks and financial institutions which is still causing ripples today. Second Covid which we were woefully ill prepared for and is still causing ripples today. Thirdly reality. Governments cannot fix everything and often the things they can fix take years and substantial investment all missing in this country during austerity. Finally the old it was more difficult in my day argument. My parents lived in a caravan until they could afford a house. Going out for meals when I grew up was unheard of - and this is generally, not just us. My parents both worked in white collar jobs. We saved up for several years to afford to put central heating in! When I bought a house holidays new clothes etc were off the agenda particularly when interest rates hit 18%. I had only second hand furniture until I was in my forties. We shouldn’t want to go backwards certainly but neither is it guaranteed that the world we live in will always enable us to go forwards.

And when I need to pay for something similar I will be using the UC. What is the difference? Savings for emergencys is a good thing. Even the government encourages it with the help to save accounts. Might start using that soon.

It’s actually none of your business what people spend their money on, whether it’s from the taxpayer or not. I am sure the poster you quoted doesn’t have 16k in savings.

Like another poster said you are misguided and short sighted. Lower income families going into debt is not the answer. I am not sure you really understand the basics of economics - qualifying for a mortgage doesn’t mean you can afford to take on another big debt.

Your own experience is that you feel entitled to have holidays while also paying for nursery. If you had your child in 2022 then they will be starting Reception soon so you have not much time left paying for nursery. You mention that costs have risen since 2022 so if you have subsequently chosen to have more children since then then you knew exactly what you were getting into so have clearly made your choices. You’re not entitled to a holiday just because you work and would like one.

Well to be frankly honest I would have thought having two kids and nursery would mean it wouldn't come as a shock that you are struggling?

That's my point, you should use savings before taking any money from the tax payer.

How on earth are the people who don't work winning?
12 years ago, I was a single mother with 1 child on benefits.
I got my rent paid and my council tax paid (about £800 altogether, council flat) and received, about £600 a month in benefits directly.
I had to put that in 3 parts,
£200 for bills, £200 for food and £200 for everything else, I.e transport, clothes, toiletries etc.
If anything broke, I couldn't replace it. I was so poor.
That hardship made me apply for university and eventually got a good job a better house.
I find it so bizaare that people think people that don't work are winning.
Benefits have barely increased since then, and I have no idea how people that don't work are coping.
My asda shop 4 years ago used to cost £60 a week, exact same shop today costs me nearly a £100.

I don't despise anyone.

If you have up to £16k in the bank, you aren't poor. It's not rocket science. The policy is wrong.

It's not short sighted at all. If you have up to £16k in the bank, you are not poor. You should not be claiming any money from the tax payer. The policy is wrong. I have no issues whatsoever with people in need being helped and contributing to benefits, I hate to see people homeless on the streets and always try to find a few quid to help those more in need. But anyone with savings does not need propped up by the tax payer, if they have savings in the bank, they are not poor and in need.

Our high earnings go on:

Mortgage
School fees for ND child
University support for other 2 children (we earn well, we don’t want our children to have to get loans when we had free uni, and if they got jobs their study would suffer)
Utilities
Food
Insurance etc

We never eat out or go on days out. Holidays are UK camping usually.

We cannot cut private school as the state option is far too violent and raucous for my anxious child to attend and they would immediately refuse and one of us would have to stop working.

I don’t want to make my children pay for uni when my education was free. I’m lucky in that I have the option to tell them to get a loan, but for now we’ll go on spending very little indeed on ourselves (haven’t had a haircut for 1.5 years!). Only 1.5 years of uni left for the oldest! If only state schools had a modicum of discipline and order we’d be able to use it but our local one is appalling and is the best in the area apparently.

Great 👍 happy for you that your planning worked out

Why should we go in debt rather than use savings?

Anyway why are we talking benefits because OP is struggling to budget? It isn't the fault of UC claimants.

Yes but if you have savings, you have money, you aren't poor. Benefits should only be claimed if they're really needed. They allow people to have up to £16k in savings, those people are not poor, they don't need money from the tax payer if they have that much money in the bank. If you have a mortgage, you can clearly get credit to pay for your ceiling coming down, then you pay for it over time when you can. Why is it the tax payers job to pay for it?

With two IVF kids I am aware of that. We have a four and half year gap.

I agree with you.

It’s difficult to come off benefits because in many circumstances people are on them because of income / children / disability / a combination.

Someone working full time without disabilities / children will find it easier to increase their income if they are struggling.

Last year I had my UC review and had to explain / justify what a £6.71 incoming transaction from Vinted was. I was asked if I make money from Vinted. It was a refund from an item that never arrived.

And I also have the “stress” of leaving the house early to take my kids to childcare / school / go to work / rush back to collect them because I’m a single parent and no one else will.

Yep! Some people do! Some people have problems with fertility and follow advice and end up in different situations. Everyone is different 🤷 and family 'planning' doesn't always work.