To think that if you’re prepared to travel to an IVF clinic outside the UK in a country where fertility treatment is not as tightly regulated as here then you need to accept the risks?

But that's the point. It's a really big 'if'.

Of course it isn't - and shouldn't be - a minor thing.

There are worse problems than getting the wrong sperm donor, if they got healthy babies does it really matter? For most people desperate for a baby that would be a minor thing.

Or, more likely, 'mummy and mummy wanted us to know we were planned and loved children, and they believed they'd chose our donor with care; they'e always been able to tell us about our medical heritage. Now they've no idea about that and it might have an impact on our long-term health.'

Anyone who decides to circumvent UK fertility law - which was changed to protect children - is a selfish idiot.

All donor conceived children should have the right to know who their biological parents are. People who bypass that in order to have children on the cheap are not adequate parents.

I don't follow that logic at all.

When I had counselling about donor conception, it was absolutely axiomatic that children will want - and deserve - to understand how you came to that choice, even if they never meet their biological parent. I would want to tell a child why I chose their donor, including his motivations for donating and, of course, his medical history.

Of course it could make a difference to the children if the donor is someone totally different from who the parents expected. He could have hereditary illnesses they've no idea about. It could be really upsetting.

The children were conceived in 2011 and 2014 they are secondary school age not toddlers.

they have the DNA of their first child - how much info can someone provide before they do start to become traceable?
Obviously it’s a different kettle of fish with the donor for the second child

They said the results of the DNA tests "indicated neither child was related to the sperm donor their parents had selected".

But if at any time one or both of the children does a DNA test with Ancestry and uploads the results, they will be matched with any relatives of their donors who have done the same - relatives who probably have no idea that this is a possibility.

There are all kinds of ethical questions and potential cans of worms surrounding both donor babies and DNA testing for fun.

I doubt children of that age will be using the word ‘compensating’, and I think there’s quite a lot of projection going on here.

This is the worst thing about this case. Just imagine their children now - ‘Mummy and Mummy wanted us to be have the same father but now that we don’t they want compensating. They must be really disappointed in us.’

I just saw a snippet on the news about somebody saying their child had the wrong coloured eyes. Fgs. It's not a mail order company that's sent you the wrong coloured jumper. Makes me absolutely sick to see human life bartered and bought and sold and meddled with this in this way.

I find it quite unclear from the article whether ‘anonymous’ in this case meant that the original donor could never be traced, or whether as a PP mentioned he had agreed to ID release at 18 if the children wanted it. It sounded like he had provided quite a detailed profile including an extended family tree, a health history and a handwritten note, plus of course they have the DNA of their first child - how much info can someone provide before they do start to become traceable?

Obviously it’s a different kettle of fish with the donor for the second child because he hasn’t provided any of those things, but that wasn’t their intention.

I find the ethical concerns about knowing a donor’s skin tone and eye colour a bit odd - this is information you have when selecting a real-life partner also?!

Indeed , but they were quite happy to let the children say ‘we are half danish’ , no idea who he is though and no hope of tracing their danish family .

I am assuming they were never going to know who their dad was anyway, so it being a different one is not going to make much difference to them

But the idea of them having the same donor, was that the children would be biologically related to each other. As it is, with two different donors, there is no biological relationship between them, as they have different mothers.

@SarahAndQuack the children do need to know, but I am assuming they were never going to know who their dad was anyway, so it being a different one is not going to make much difference to them

This and their photos and info will be online forever

I look at it from the children's point of view too.

I am not sure about sharing pictures, but it may be they couldn't get the story out there without?

Of course the first thing they noticed - as they do explain - was a visible difference. Just as, if you were worried your child had been mixed up with another baby on the ward, you might first think 'wait, how come this baby has brown eyes and we both have blue?'

That would not mean that you could only love a blue-eyed baby. You would probably be hugely reassured to learn that, actually (let's say) your DP had a brown-eyed ancestor who was responsible and it was all fine.

No one would conclude you were worrying about the actual eye colour - they'd understand you were worrying that you'd brought home a baby that wasn't yours.

It's the same.

I don't follow why you think the children don't deserve to know this sort of thing?

@SarahAndQuack I did not say: I don't understand you making a fuss about your traumatic birth - you had a beautiful baby so how dare you be upset your body is wrecked and you are frightened for your future health

I said that I sharing pictures of DC is wrong. I look at it from the children's point of view. These pictures were shared because of the difference in the children highlighted by skin, hair & eye colour. What impact does such a comparison statement have on the DC long term? How can anyone say to their child actually you aren't quite what I expected you to be in relation to physical features. Then do an DNA test and actually the child isn't what they have paid for... quite frankly it is horrific for the child and the parents. I mean every time they look st each other there is this huge question mark. And now it's all in the public domain these questions will also be asked by strangers.

I agree with highlighting the issue but with consideration for the children. Something that wasn't done in this instance.

But saying what you are saying is very like people who say 'I don't understand you making a fuss about your traumatic birth - you had a beautiful baby so how dare you be upset your body is wrecked and you are frightened for your future health'.

It's not about 'a commodity that has been delivered in the wrong colour'.

This couple will have thought they chose a donor who had been screened for heritable conditions, who was a certain age, who was who the clinic said he was.

They will be worrying about those things.

It can be either, but anonymous is also used for id release often by the press.

My point was that in terms of choosing ivf destinations there are many countries that are a complete write off for same sex couples including some of the most popular ones (Czech republic), and some countries you wouldn't expect (Germany for example)

Some of the most popular ones in europe that have whole industires around ivf tourism completely insist on anonymous donors, and some give you bugger all information

If they were seeking completely anonymous and that was their reason for choice you'd probably go to them

North Cyprus allows both.

I've just not heard of people selecting north cyprus specifically for its donor laws, but more likely the price and less restrictions and higher success rates.

I just don't think its fair to say that people that go abroad are probably doing it to get round uk laws or should known its dodgy. We looked at paying extensively for uk sperm to be shipped to get the uk regulation (it wasn't possible), and considered it after some bad experiences in the uk

Similar to birth trauma, if you speak out people will tell you that you've got a healthy baby you shouldn't complain etc

While I agree about speaking out and making people aware of potential issues, I think that a) sharing pictures of DC is wrong and b) trying to sue a clinic in another country with different laws will be almost impossible. These children aren't a commodity that has been delivered in the wrong colour, they are living & breathing human beings with their own thoughts and intellect.

I hope the children never read this story.

The son is quoted in the story, and the parents say the children know the facts.

But now, with their photos all over the internet, everyone else knows too. Raising awareness is one thing. Ignoring their children's right to privacy is something else entirely.

@Rawesome in the article about this case in Northern Cyprus it said that the donor was anonymous

This is probably false. We looked at North Cyprus because there was more info on donors

Again other countries eg Spain, czech republic insist on anonymous donors, but cyprus isn't one of them. I can't think of a single lesbian couple i know that plumped for a clinic abroad because it was anonymous, I know more swerving countries.

I don't think in the uk the donor gets your details and I don't think that's the case in any country. The child (now adult) gets the details and gets to chose to make contact

We were looking at north cyprus after bad experiences in the uk with clinics being chaotic, the success rate was far higher, costs far cheaper, its commutable, had better customer service, and offered greater flexibility.

The usual recommended and popular destinations for ivf abroad in Europe are

-Spain- anon only
-Czech - anon, non same sex couples
-greece. Allows same sex and either anon or not anon

• North cyprus. Allows same sex and either

A surprising amount of countries don't allow same sex couples eg Italy, Poland, Turkey etc

Again often the focus is on lesbian couples but most egg,embryo, and sperm donation recipients are straight couples where a surprising amount are still fueling the drive for anonymous donation and not always informing their children

The reality is most same sex parents have the conversation in mind from the get go because there is no hiding it. You tend to find that donor concieved information pages are highly populated by same sex couples because they know what's coming and are expected to be accountable. When I suggested them to a hetro friend who had egg donor treatment,she hadn't even heard of them, and hadn't got round to buying the book yet and felt like they wanted to tell them at 18. Her pre usage counselling was very tick box, and no one is sparking the conversation with her more widely.

I've never heard of that in the lesbian community because it is part of our story from day one

I had treatment in the UK - all UK clinics require this. DD's donor dad also make it clear he had thought about it personally (I think, though I am not sure, that his wife had donor eggs).