To think we need a "label' in addition to SEND?

@MrsLizzieDarcy Ever thought the parents might be depressed because of the high needs of the children? It is very hard to parent an autistic toddler.

How do you know it is because she is on her phone? My son is spoken to, read to and sang to. Still only says a few words at four. They might not be speaking due to their autism.

That is just a speech delay through neglect. That isn't autism.

Social work are generally busy dealing with kids witnessing their mum getting battered, or who have no furniture, clothes or food in the house, or whose parents are drunk and incapable. A child not being read to with no other concerns wouldn’t even be on my radar, because most of the kids on social work case loads are in actual danger.

I agree with want you are saying but what is the point in giving a label if the support and interventions aren’t there.

Maternity, health visiting, social work and services like sure start have been stripped back to the absolute bare bones. Where some of these issues may have been identified earlier previously and dealt with, or even just highlighted to parents, they are now discovered till nursery or school age.

In my opinion there is far too much trust in the whole system that parents are automatically doing the right thing. For example, I’m asked is your child registered with a dentist and attending checkups? All that is relying on me is saying yes and it’s never asked again. Why can’t my health visitor see on a system I am actually registered with a dentist and when the last check up was etc?

Potty training is a big one you see people moaning about kids going to school in nappies, yet my DD has been trained for almost a year and no health professional has ever asked me about it (we have seen a few in the past year due to hospital admissions etc) it’s like it’s not considered part of development. I have had friends who are really struggling with potty training and have reached out to their HV for advice and support, but let’s face it a lazy parent won’t bother.

I have found our private nursery to be really supportive and helpful with general stuff like bringing along speech, getting DD to eat a bigger variety of foods and potty training. But if you aren’t accessing childcare then what help are you getting?

I have friends who are teachers and see kids who are never read to and must spend excessive times on screens, it’s clearly neglect but social work aren’t interested.

The whole system needs a shake up, there need to be much more resources and people keeping an eye on who is bothering to use them. If your child is being failed by you as a parent but you aren’t bothering to do anything about it then that is neglect and should be treated as such.

Absolutely this. Can't emphasize enough. Seen it so often. It's worse if you are black, disabled, poor, single parent or any combination of those.

Seen it from school side, parent side (as a parent of disabled children who has been to lots of groups/training with other parents)

Well I was labelled a rubbish parent before my son was diagnosed with autism at the age of 3. He has always had trouble falling asleep and until the age of 5 was going to sleep between 9 and 10pm at night with bedtime taking 2 to 3 hours - he could not fall asleep, never has been able to despite me trying everything. Finally he was prescribed melatonin and now sleeps for an extra 2 to 2.5 hours per night and his behaviour has improved dramatically.
We actually took a parenting course run by a psychologist after his diagnosis and regularly see one as well as occupational therapist but often from outside perspective when my son is having a meltdown, others are quick to label us as bad parents.
At times DS has looked disheveled - he refused to have his hair cut for 9 months, has always had sensory issues around hair washing, cut hair touching his skin.....I've always cut it myself but it takes alot of prep to convince him. He also refused teeth brushing until the age of 4 but we forcibly did it. Some children might look like they're poorly parented but have undiagnosed additional needs.

@DorcasLanesOneWeaknessI have had ‘mum appears anxious’ when displaying normal levels of concern. So overreacting. But in crisis situations have been considered to be under reacting when blocking out emotions to keep a cool head. My son is autistic in all situations. That doesn’t stop me being judged in all situations.

OP I understand you are frustrated when you see older teens learning impacted by neglect. But in the current climate of underfunding and delayed diagnosis and lack of support post diagnosis with mainstream schools left to cope with relatively severe learning difficulties this can be twisted to support a view that SEN is primarily a result of parental neglect.

In the main parents of DC with SEND and neglectful parents are chalk and cheese due to the level of admin and ongoing engagement with school and LA required. Goes well beyond the level of engagement required for the average NT child with average parents.

Your work colleague told you his DC are non verbal as his wife is too busy or her phone?

Social work will be involved with children with disabilities, and providing nursery or childcare places is the earliest type of intervention for children both to support their development, provide a framework for assessment of need and to give mum some respite. Why do you think a child being moved to specialist provision is a sign of poor parenting or a negative?

Yes. Every word of this.

There are capable, intelligent, fully engaged parents supporting their SEN children, and there are many who, for whatever reason, lack the capacity to fight for appropriate support, or even really understand their child's needs. I've often said that if the system is this hard for a parent like me to navigate (educated, reasonably affluent, value education, my child has all the love, attention and support that she needs), then what a frightening prospect for children who have none of that.

Just this morning I've spent two hours annotating correspondence from the LA and providing evidence as to why they're in breach of their S19 duties. I've spent days writing and speaking to CAMHS, the LA, my child's senco and headteacher, my MP etc. I've spent days and days (and nights, too, when i can't sleep for worry) learning the 'system' and which levers and buttons to push and pull, how things work (or invariably don't work). We've exhausted all parent led workshops, one to ones, various interventions, and online forums. We've read pages and pages of books. It is like wading through treacle, every day. And that's all happening alongside holding down a job.

Seriously, how many parents are able to advocate effectively for their children in a system that is completely stacked against them?

or maybe it just shows your ignorance around why ss might be involved with a family with disabled children.

Well it seems SS agree there’s a problem.

Who needs enemies when your dh's work colleagues know so much about your life they know your autistic kids are non verbal because mum spends too much time in her phone. This has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on here and that's saying something.

It's strange how you assume a move to a special school is some sort of parenting failure. It actually just indicates how much support the child needs hence parents being exhausted.

Interesting that you move to removing the kids rather than supporting the exhausted parent. Parenting young kids with autism can be all consuming depending on how their needs present. Both my kids have complex needs and while I know the systems, can advocate for their needs and parent them well it’s absolutely exhausting on every level. If supports and services were readily available and accessible you’d find fewer parents wiped out by the system and more able to parent. Professionals can’t even agree on what it means to “parent well”, much less support parents to do so.

Attending special school isn’t a defeat, or a sign of poor parenting, and accessing childcare can give an exhausted parent respite which may increase their capacity to care for their children.

It’s great that your child responds to the way you parent, other children might find your style of parenting impossible to cope with.

Oh, you parented fheir SEN away? 😂

I can see what you are saying
(and as a parent of a child with SEN I am aware I have to fighter harder for support now because more people are asking for it than may need it. Your example of the exam arrangements is good what are wants what are needs we are currently trying to get extra time for SATS but school whilst acknowledging child has weakness in a specific area say can't justify extra time because they aren't failing in on mock tests for other areas and they can't just give extra time for them to do even better).
But how do you differentiate how do you outright know it's poor parenting and not SEN or not both?
It goes the other way as well our parenting boosted our ASD / ADHD child so well that to start with school didn't believe they had difficulties ironically some of the poorly parented children were getting way more support but that was because other services had been notified and brought in to support because the deficits had been recognised is a a label that is needed or is it that the systems that should support parenting have disappeared and need to be brought back?

The poster seems to have made a lot of assumptions. The account of the social.worker also sounds very strange.

This is a classic example of attribution bias.

Completely agree OP. When our eldest was diagnosed with ADHD, we realised that we were tiptoeing around her behaviour to avoid meltdowns and weren't being anywhere near firm enough around routines/boundaries. It was horrendous, never being able to deviate from the routine and DH was totally resistant to it but my god it did make things so much better. We had a strict no screen policy after 6pm, bath every night, quiet time listening to audio books/stories before sleep and lights out at set times every night. It also helped with our other 2 (both NT). Once she wasn't sleep deprived, life got easier for her and us.

I've got a work colleague in his late 50s with 2 non verbal autistic children (5 and 2). Mum is late 40s, they're both exhausted/can't be bothered and there is no routine/bedtime/consistency whatsoever. Kids are often ill due to their horrendous diets. And both kids are flailing with it.... the older boy is on the cusp of being moved to a special school and SS have insisted that the younger does 30 hours a week with a childminder as they had no vocabulary (Mum too busy on her phone). I think both kids need removing, it's awful to hear about.

All these kids with anxiety have had their every crazy toddler feeling validated, have been given so much control over their choices that it's like a passenger being handed the joystick on a plane, of course they are anxious
Anxiety is a totally normal part of childhood developmental. Gosh was I anxious about many things as a kid, as were most of my friends. Some I shared with my parents, a lot I shared with my friends, and aot I kept for myself. I grew out of most of it without any interventions.

In a world that loves label, I find it ajazing how taboo the word lazy has become... yet the reality is that parents nowadays are so much lazier than any previous generations.

There might be good or justifiable reasons, but ultimately, many kids are struggling because of lazy parenting, but giving them a label, or even better, getting professionals to do so, takes the responsibility away from them.

Why do we need more labels? It just boils down a complicated problem and oversimplifies it.

The single biggest factor in ebsa is autism, with around 90% of school avoiders being autistic. Frankly, the fact that you believe parents would choose not to send their child to school if there was any other way of getting them there is both laughable and offensive. We're not talking mild 'don't want to go to school' anxiety here. Many parents are being forced to give up good jobs and careers for this reason. Good, decent parents who value education, love and care for their kids and are doing everything to try to enable their child to access learning.

Ah yes, I quite agree. Let's label the "other" kids so we can move forward with our progressive elimination policies.

Chubby kid? Segregation and mandatory starvation until the optimum body fat percentage is achieved.

Nits? Forced chemical showers and humiliation rituals in assembly.

Holes in their blazer? Arrest the parents and lock them up for being poor. It's so abusive not to have a Chelsea tractor and designer gear.

(Obligatory sarcasm label for those with poor reading comprehension.)

This is a slippery slope OP, stop categorising children based on things you find annoying. Difference exists in the world, be more tolerant of natural variation in finances, ability and developmental speed.