AIBU to discourage uni for daughter, I'm worried about debt without career plan?

You can encourage her to be fully informed about debt and try to reduce it by working on a gap year or while at uni, going to uni at home city or a cheap housing city, etc

Honestly? I think you are right to be cautious....now.

My youngest has just graduated and yes, it is really grim out there in the 'real world'. She has an art subject and really, it doesn't equip her for much practically. However, she had the most lovely time at uni, the experience we all dream of. Was it worth getting into debt for? The jury's still out. She has just landed her first (minimum wage) job, after A LOT of applications - but it is in a related field to her degree.

I will say that if your DD does go, she needs to be clever about it while she is there. That looks like - get any relevant work experience that she can. That might be choosing a course with a practical or field study module. Be chatty and interested in the lecturers so they remember her and get those personal references. Choose a dissertation subject that she will be able to put on her cv. Be a student ambassador for open days. Write for the student paper. Basically, use all the resources available to her with an eye on her future (and her cv).

I may not have seen every post but I’m genuinely interested to know those who are saying it is up to the DD alone what they think about parents having to contribute £6000+ if they’re only entitled to minimum loans. That seems to be completely overlooked? Parents should get no say and just stump up the cash? It’s more nuanced than this surely.

Please do not discourage her. It is her life and her decision entirely.
There are arguments on both sides but she needs to consider these herself.
If you push one view on her she will be tempted to push you away.
By all means have an objective discussion with her if she is willing, looking at all sides and all possible options and sources of advice. Then leave her to think it through herself.

You are being short sighted.

If your daughter is academic and wishes to go to university you should support her choice.

Without a degree she would be limited in her choice of careers and I think it is unfair that you benefited from a university education but don't want your daughter to have the same opportunity

It is her choice and her life ultimately and you have to respect that.

I would encourage if its a degree that is in solid subject. So called mickey mouse, subject no, point towards apprenticeship.

oh Sorry there’s a third point!

University used to be for what your daughter wants, a way to academically study a subject to a high level. Fees have made university all about getting a qualification for work.

I do feel for your dd in this change - there was always space for people who only wanted to study at university to improve their employment opportunities, but now the academically interested people like your DD aren’t encouraged, unless they come from wealthy families.

That said, if she’s really keen on a subject, she’s more likely to get a 2.1 or 1st compared to someone who’s not really interested and just doing it to pass 3 years/improve their job prospects.

Would you mind sharing what subject it is? There may be a raft of careers that degree subject could lead to, many of which you may not have thought of. There are also many jobs that want a degree but not necessarily a specific one. Any degree from a good uni at a high classification would do.

Not having a specific career plan is ok but it depends on the course ? STEM subjects - especially if she is academic enough to take to a higher level - seem to give kids more options now and in the future

absolutely the parent’s decision unless the child is asking for zero input for accommodation/transport/food etc
She can “love to learn” on her own money 🤷🏽‍♀️
I have a Uni qualification and am struggling on £14 odd p/h

What?! Honestly some of the advice on this thread is so completely out of touch. A degree is mostly useful as a launch pad into some industries, unless it’s a profession that specially requires a degree lots of career paths simply do not care about degrees once you have experience. I’m noticing more and more in our industry that there are alternate routes into the sector, completely side stepping the need for a degree at all. And I’ve never personally encountered someone being unable to promote within a field they are already in without a degree. (not saying that doesn’t happen, but it’s not inevitable nor indeed I would argue even common place).

I wonder if she will be better waiting a year or two and deciding what she fancies as a career, then study that subject? I didn't go until I was 23, but I had decided my path by then and had done a little work in the industry so was sure.

Doing a degree is nearly always worth it, as it's not just about education, but doing a degree in the field that a person wishes to work in makes better financial sense and better chance for the future.

What about the open university, my son decided to work with the students of his old school, must of enjoyed it, decided to do a maths degree at the open university.
He was able to continue working at the school whilst studying, he is now a senior teacher with no student debt.

This 100%. I was told the repayments would barely be noticeable but it isn't true at all. A couple of hundred coming out of your paycheque every month really does make it harder to do things like pay your mortgage and save/invest. DP and I are thinking about children but of course we have less money available for nursery fees thanks to our student loans.

OP, I think waiting a year or two to see if the government reforms the system in some way is really sensible.

But potential future earnings are very relevant when thinking about student loan repayments. If she's likely to end up in a career/profession where she earns just over average wages, i.e. around £50-£60k p.a. on average, she'll probably be paying student loan repayments for all her working life, probably adding up to 2 or 3 times the amount borrowed. If she ends up in a low paid job (or part time) earning under the threshold, she'll pay hardly anything back (subject to fiscal drag on the threshold). If she's a high earner, say £100+ on average, she'll pay the loan back a lot quicker, with less interest, so will repay less overall.

Also consider what other job prospects she'd have without a degree - maybe very limited if she's academic and doesn't get a degree as that tends to suggest she may not be cut out for practical jobs so may end up basically on minimum wage kind of jobs for life.

I do think she needs to think carefully about what kind of work life she expects to have, what career, etc., then work backwards to see whether a degree is needed or beneficial to do that.

YABU she’s academic and loves learning

its her choice

without a degree she will hit a ceiling in her career beyond which promotion can’t be reached

And this

https://www.thetimes.com/article/da46d6d7-1255-4bce-8140-18b33d1603f7?shareToken=d9fcd64a6a2dc7b95fc904ce4d862d10

OP I think you are totally right to challenge her on whether investing three years at uni on a course that wont lead anywhere is the right decision. I did a geography degree and had no plans post degree. I would never want my kids to do the same in the world we now live in with graduate roles on the decline, increasing costs and the rise of AI. Is spending three years out if the job market while building up debt, really a good idea for her?

Read this (and suggest she does too)

https://www.thetimes.com/article/70144f6d-a94a-446d-94d2-0f76dc009140?shareToken=0052f62225c06ba0076c2b24c70b7e2a

Couple of things - it’s all good and well to say it’s DDs debt, but considering what she can borrow is based on parental income, there is an expectation of parents paying the difference, if you aren’t on minimum wage OP you will probably have to make a financial contribution. You do need to be on board with that.

Also - while th graduate job market is tricky right now, the school leavers is worse. Because there aren’t many graduate roles available, your DD with just A levels will be competing for jobs against people with a degree, and possibly work experience in uni holidays etc.

But what about the £6000+ per year parents are supposed to pay if they’re only eligible for the minimum loans. You don’t think parents should have any say?

I wouldn’t be encouraging it
if she went to go and study subjects xy and z to get a qualification that would lead her to a job in that field she would reap the benefits of the investment
going to uni because you like learning she’ll end up like the large amount of people saddled with debt and a degree they don’t use in run of the mill jobs earning the same money as the rest of us

Students often find their plan at university. She doesn’t need to have every step figured out.

if she doesn’t go to university, what are you suggesting she do to gain skills or certifications that will provide a living wage?

As far as the loan goes, think of it as a graduate tax. I know Martin Lewis says it isn’t. But it’s one way to think of it.

I don’t work in the field of my degree but having a degree has been useful when applying to jobs and I have since studied a postgraduate qualification through work in a relevant topic. Has she considered a degree apprenticeship?