To think that menopause talks at work might not be an entirely good thing?

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I've never experienced vaginal dryness. Not everyone does. That's another concern, do the people running these sessions have any clue about the range of experiences and diversity of symptoms and the fact that some people are perfectly fine to self manage any symptoms they might have and that some will be having negligible issues? I know some people suffer with worse symptoms than others but thats a medical issue you speak to your doctor about. I didnt tell my male bosses everyone I had period pains or PMT and on the rare occasion I had to take a sick day because of severe period cramps id tell them I was 'unwell'. Why is menopause now something everyone wants to go into clinical detail about in the workplace? It portrays an image that older women are ill and past it and no longer able to do their jobs properly.

@DeftGoldHedgehog - it was the dry vagina stuff that got me, too. As far as I’m aware, there is no other group where everyone’s attention is expressly directed to what might be happening in their most intimate body parts. It may be well meant but it’s bloody intrusive. It’s fixable anyway - we just needed a decent lube and i’ve heard oestrogen gel works wonders. Probably i’m over-sensitive but to me, there’s also a kind of “washed up sexually” subtext to the dry vagina narrative whereas in fact i love post-menopausal sex - so liberating not to have to bother with contraception.

I think I just fundamentally don't get this... What did you actually do differently than if it had been a male employee in his 50s bursting into tears at work? Are you saying if it hadn't been menopause-related you'd have just written her off, assuming that she'd be mad for ever, but that because it was menopause-related it was ok?! And how is the second example any different to any other health condition that could be a bit personal? Are you saying that at your work if someone had a bowel issue they would fear asking for adjustments because it would be seen negatively? At your work, do people have to disclose the exact nature of their issue to get the adjustment in the first place - if they say they have a health issue and need a reasonable accommodation do their managers not just work with that? All of this sounds like you didn't need a menopause policy, you need to look at employee support more generally!

Great to raise awareness, but I don't want to talk about vaginal dryness with random 30 year old men at work.

What is different is that it is recognising that it is all related to a biological condition that 50% of our workforce will go through at some point in their working lives in one way or another.

It is recognising that in the first example I gave, the woman who worked for us didn’t have a serious mental health condition that came out of nowhere, she was just struggling for a period of time and that with our support, some short term adjustments and appropriate signposting, she was able to thrive.

In the second example, it didn’t start off as awful, it was a slow burn that started with a couple of heavy, erratic menstrual cycles that developed into constant flooding which left her unable to leave the house. But due to our menopause awareness policies, she was able to talk to her manager and colleagues at the very start without any fear that requesting adjustments would have a negative impact on how she is seen by her department.

ETA: the point is that we are making it very clear that the women who work for us do not have to suffer in silence and just try to keep all the balls in the air at work and at home hoping that no one will notice what they are going through (which is what women are taught to do from a very young age).

Quite. Touch wood I'm having no gynae problems at 50 but I had a whole raft of them in my 30s and early 40s which meant hospital treatment and time off work.

Ugh, I'm 50 and would hate this too.

Corporate box ticking bullshit like "wellbeing days" when the working environment is toxic and stressful.

Instead of menopause awareness, actually see how many women over 40 you employ and how many are in senior positions. Are you making everyone come into the office 5 days a week? Think about how that affects people disproportionately who have children and elderly parents. Are people scared to ask for time off for a hospital appointment to follow up on a mammogram? What are your toilets like if someone had a flood or IBS? Is your workplace entirely set up around senior men who have wives at home doing stuff for them?

Again, I don't understand why you needed a menopause policy for this? Surely your workplace had existing policies that could have been used for people who were experiencing significant mental health difficulties or who had a chronic health condition that required surgery? What was different here?

Yeah its got way out of hand. I didnt even think about menopause until my periods started changing at 51. Now all the younger women I know are going on about peri and are attributing every negative thing in their lives at 39, 40 to it. There's no rush ladies, you'll know actual menopause when it comes and it's between you, your partner, close friends and doctor. Nobody at work needs to know if it doesn't impact your ability to work. If it does, then it should be treated like any other medical problem on a case by case basis, discretely, between you, your GP and HR.

Seriously, how people can't see the danger here is beyond me. Menopause awareness talks atbwork have got ageism justification written all over them.

And all this casual assumption that being menopause age automatically equals brain fog and anxiety? No it doesnt! Why are you handing them the stick?!

I 100% disagree with you OP.

Perimenopause can be debilitating for some women and it is vital that employers recognise this, provide awareness for managers and provide support where needed.

I’m exec level and have had women in the organisations I have worked in really suffer. I had one woman a few years ago really struggle to cope with her mental health and was often found crying in the office. The men on the board wanted us to put her on a performance plan and there were several disparaging comments about menopause. It was disgraceful but luckily I was on the board, so I ignored them and provided support instead.

In another organisation, 1 woman who worked for us had about a year of very serious health complications related to menopause that resulted in a full hysterectomy. It was brutal for her but the HR Director and I had already put a menopause policy in place and we were able to support her and she felt able to share with us want she was going through without fear of losing her job.

At my current organisation we are currently refining our menopause policy. We have had presentations by external advisors for anyone who wants to attend. We also have a service where anyone who needs extra support from the external advisors can receive it confidentially paid for by the company.

In our organisation, we have more female leaders than we do male. We recognise that going through perimenopause or menopause can have no impact, a massive impact or anything in between on a woman’s working life but it is never a reflection of how well she can do her job. This is just a season and we will be there to support her if needed.

The alternative is we would end up losing amazing women as all too often women who are struggling decide to step back, reduce hours, take early retirement, take a less stressful part time role etc.

This may depend entirely on the culture of the individual workplace and the demographic of the employees. I work in a very young workplace - most employees are in their mid 20s to mid 30s. Only a handful of older people. So there is no way that I would feel comfortable making a joke about having a hot flush etc.

Completely agree with all your points, especially the tendency to blame all shortcomings from the age of about 38 on “peri”

Also, my God, women are just fucking amazing. We can grow and birth actual humans! After I gave birth the first time, I honestly couldn’t believe that whole religions aren’t set up to worship women as goddesses, so powerful did I feel!
All the middle aged and older women I know are just incredibly capable, open minded and clever, and they get more so with age. Men seem to grow narrower in thought in middle age, more set in their ways and have less energy.
I honestly think the focus on us as defective all the time is to stop us realising how actually amazing we are.
I had horrendous flooding in my early 40s, like, oh god I need a nappy, when I suddenly stood up, and it was pretty awful but even with that I managed to do a masters, professional qualifications and raise 2 kids single handed!

I don't think that's a fair analogy. Being gay doesn't impact on someone's work, at all. The messaging I get about menopause is that I will be exhausted all the time and might well be less mentally acute, have bad judgement due to anxiety, and need lots of time off, and that there's a non-negligible chance I won't be able to work at all. That's terrifying for me - and I can't see how it wouldn't impact on other's view of me, even if only subconsciously.

If the messaging was that 'of course gay people can only produce 70% as much work as straight people - but you should still employ them, because you don't want to discriminate and they can't help it!' then yes, I do think it would hurt gay people's chances of employment. And that is, whether intentioned or not, how some of the 'menopause awareness' comes across.

I agree. We had the same thinking at work and ended up thinking it’s just another stick to beat women with. My menopause was a non event. I had some hot flushes but even tge ‘brain fog’ type issues I attributed to stress rather than tge menopause. Also if you’re aware of it you can adapt.

However it is also very frustrating when women use it as an excuse themselves and think they should be given special treatment. The amount of threads on here that start off as ‘I’m a premenopausal or I’m menopausal’ to excuse some generally irrational behaviour is staggering.

See the issue there again is discrimination, not the fact that you're menopausal age. It's ageism, for whatever reason, male or female, you encounter that for.

We don't suggest the problem with discrimination against people for being gay is the fact that it is an issue which has been talked about. The solution which is offered is not just that they should hide it away and not discuss being gay.

The idea that awareness of menopause symptoms should be suppressed so as not to cause discrimination seems wrong to me. That's not the right problem being fixed.

It should be - this is the reality for some women, how do we change our practices to accommodate it so that we can keep them in the workforce.

It also shouldn't be that you're only employable if you're one of the people who doesn't experience symptoms.

YANBU at ALL.
I fucking HATE that my public sector organisation wangs on about menopause at every available opportunity, and that I was asked to get involved in some menopause awareness shite.
Yes, because in a profession dominated by young people, and an organisation where the top bods are invariably men, I really want them all to view me as a moody, leaky, emotional mess who can’t think straight.
Of course my 49 year old brain is a bit slower than it used to be, but so is David’s, it’s part of middle age, it’s just that David doesnt worry about it because as a 49 year old man he’s considered to be at the peak of his game.

I more than make up for occasionally being a bit tired after a bad nights sleep with being able to think about 7 different things simultaneously and the experience to make informed decisions.

I am sick of women being defined by their sodding hormones and my alleged vaginal dryness is not the business of my employer, anymore than David’s impotence is!

We had the same talk a few years ago, I was bored rigid and I was peri at the time. I’m now 58 and looking for work and feel that others having this talk right now is significantly reducing my chances of finding anything. Whereas I’m perfectly fine and would be a great worker, after 36yrs proving it every day!

“Most of us”? You have evidence for that?

What does “managing symptoms” look like? For me the physical symptoms that can be uncomfortable within myself are managed, but the brain fog and forgetfulness aren’t something that is easily managed. When I’m in a meeting or giving student lectures, and words disappear from my mind, it makes me look like an idiot. So I explain to people before I start where appropriate, or in the moment explain why the word has left me. If people then want to see that part as a weakness, that’s up to them. Those people will never be convinced that women are equal.

You say you don’t want colleagues to look at you and wonder if you have vaginal dryness etc. Do you look at your colleagues and think that about them? I certainly don’t! So why would anyone be thinking that about you?

I signed up to become a “Menopause Champion” in my business. The team is mostly made of women, but a couple of men also signed up to it! Our aim is to raise awareness of menopause symptoms, signpost people to where they can get support (internal and external) and be a point of contact for people to ask questions etc. We have also ran line manager training sessions to ensure that they feel equipped to support the women in their team going through this… but also people who might be supporting someone at home going through it but suffering badly potentially that it has an impact on their family members too.

The idea is to make it less taboo to talk about it. It’s also to reduce the number of women who’ve up quitting their job because of debilitating symptoms, when actually some reasonable adjustments might have helped them to continue working.

I imagine if you’re finding you’ve got every symptom in the book it must feel like a spotlight is being put right on you. I’ve got some awful symptoms - but not as many as you have said you have. All of our information sessions has made it very clear that most people won’t get every symptom, some won’t get any and that for those that do get symptoms they can be varying degrees of severity.

Overall I think it’s a good thing to raise awareness and not make it some dirty secret no-one talks about. And if we talk about it, it allows women to flourish at work - because the reasonable adjustments will allow them to be at their best.

I’m very proud to work for a company that has been recognised and awarded for being a menopause friendly employer. We are a HUGE global business, so we aren’t talking about a tiny company where it could be pretty easy to tick those boxes!

I’ve found the opposite

im 52, quite open at work in terms of challenges of menopause and the impact on me ( brain fog, poor memory, anxiety etc) and discuss with the male boss. They’ve been wholly supportive and empathetic and actually my boss said his wife struggling with the same

ive not found any discrimination. Maybe just lucky

personally I think men and employers should know and understand more and put policies in place that support

It is another box ticking inclusive exercise that alienates the people concerned.
Similarly with the lgbt training, a lot of people who had no problem with the lgbt community became angry at being forced to announce pronouns etc.

I'm all for building awareness but my god I am sick of hearing about it. I have stopped looking st some of my friends insta stories as its all omg peri menopause this and that, I didn't know the symptoms and its important...blah blah blah.

At work the women's network all they suddenly do on terms of talks is centered on menopause. Like there is nothing else.

Personally I would rather start getting them and go to a GP and be told I have it instead of people second guessing it, me tion you are feeling got or somwthing else then its instantly are you sure your aren't peri menopausal.

Because if you get a sudden change in your periods to become erratic timing heavier, lighter, it can be a sign of early perimenopause in your late 30s. It can also be a sign of other health problems and an indication you need to see your GP.

As far as I know they do give information about heavy periods in schools. But a change in your periods in your 30s is quite different to always having had heavy periods.