To think that menopause talks at work might not be an entirely good thing?

I didn’t. I actually acknowledged that you and other didn’t struggle. I myself haven’t either and so I fall into the same category as you. But I am willing to listen to the women who have.

Im pretty sure that nobody is commenting on your personal age and reproductive stage in your workplace

And you're dismissing my experience which is that menopause didnt affect me in any way which meant that I struggled to do my job and that I don't appreciate my age and reproductive stage being highlighted and commented on at work without my permission. It cuts both ways. So lets keep it out of the workplace and in doctors and charities and external support services where it belongs.

I’m really sorry that has been your experience. The complete lack of support for people with disabilities in the workplace and wider society is shameful.

and who has said that it does? you're completely missing the point- which is that advertising and highlighting it in the workplace might not be the best place to offer that support to women who need it.

No but it doesn’t mean it’s horrendous for everyone and that we are all struggling with brain fog etc.

I’m AuDHD actually and employers do see people like me as a bit useless. I have missed out on jobs because, ironically, of ‘awareness’.

People see me as a total liability despite sailing through menopause and masking my AUDHD. They see ‘reasonable adjustments/brain fog’ and they don’t want to know.

People are far stupider than you may think and are largely incapable of understanding nuance.

Luckily my employer is better than most - I have a couple of adjustments (which inconveniences nobody).

They have paid for me to qualify in something at the age of 55, and offered me an amazing opportunity to do a new job role despite the fact that I dont have the experience but it is something I’m passionate about and I am good at.

But my employer is the exception.

I get so frustrated with people dismissing women’s experiences. Just because you didn’t struggle, and actually don’t know anyone who did, it doesn’t mean it isn’t horrendous for others.

Where is your evidence that 'menopause has a significant effect on the brain'? It hasn't affected my brain in any noticeable way. Similarly, where is your evidence that the dearth of women in senior leadership is because they ALL leave because the cant cope with working whilst experiencing menopause, and not because, say, they are pushed out by younger colleagues who don't yet have the same caring responsibilities (or let their wives do it all) or are made redundant by older male bosses that perceive them as old and useless? or they simply have had enough after 25 years of listening to non-evidence based HR policies that make their working lives harder.

but many women exit the workforce at this time, as a direct result…

What nonsense. I’ve never met a single woman who’s given up work because of the menopause, and I’m not at all young.

To make that case that women are disadvantaged and require measures to be put in place to make it possible for them to work (which is bollocks anyway) plays straight into the hands of those who believe that women are less capable than men, and could make them a less attractive hire for many employers.

I can see that this comes from a good place but have you asked 50+ women if they appreciate the scrutiny or think these policies are the best way to retain them? Your research has gone away if you think 50+ women are leaving the workplace largely be cause of the menopause..

Work adjustments where needed, yes, but support and advice - that isn't what I expect or want from my workplace. Particularly when it helps put me in a disadvantaged perception, in the eyes of many, partciularly younger males. That is what doctors, friends, family and the abundance of independent advice out there is for.

I urge you to just consider if you are really doing the right thing for older women and whether this is actually going to help retain them, or actually make things harder, as my experience would suggest.

Menopause is so much more than periods and loss of fertility / it has significant impact on the brain and many women suffer in silence. Of course some have less issues and some don’t like talking about it, but many women exit the workforce at this time, as a direct result , and im
all for awareness both individually and as society to put measures in place that actually support to en staying in the workplace longer / maybe I’m lucky working for large global
companies ( as do friends who say the same) and cultures are very supportive

Women are affected by their hormones in various stages of life which are different than men’s. Eg pregnancy and menopause. The only person saying that this means we should be regardless as useless is you.

If employees needed measures such as wheelchair access, or support due to autism, would you regard them as being a bit useless?

Some women can be ruled by their hormones at this stage. And that’s ok as we recognise that it is just a stage and not a reflection of their commitment to the organisation or their ability to do their job.

In exactly the same way that when you are pregnant you may be more tired, more emotional, not enough sleep, hormones all over the place, really struggling. But there is legislation to protect you in those circumstances.

Some people can cope, some can’t and need extra support. But we don’t write off anyone because their body is going through a huge change.

I suffered a bit as soon as I started peri but got straight onto HRT and have been fine since. Some people don’t want to go onto HRT and would rather manage without and would just like a bit of support, advice, and a few minor work adjustments. And I’m proud that we are able to do that for the women in our workforce that want it.

Surely it just lets people think that women are ruled by their hormones and can be expected to be a bit useless regardless of their life stage?

Perfect response! ‘Bringing your whole self to work’ is even more cringey than the management speak of the yuppie era!

Our menopause policy come from a desire to retain women at the top of their game in their 50’s and through the lived experiences of those at the top of the organisation having personal experience of menopause or experience of losing valued members of their teams over the years.

We have plenty of other policies that support many other challenges that our workforce may experience. Our menopause policy is just one.

I'm of the opinion that not every life experience needs its own PowerPoint presentation.

How about not bringing your whole self to work? And doing the job to the best of your abilities? And chatting to HR/manager if something comes up which gets in the way of doing that?

It just underlines how crappily our bodies are designed 😬

I typed something similar but your post makes more sense!

My AuDHD brain has really run with this 😬

Women’s bodies are designed around our reproductive system whether we have children or not. So periods, pregnancy, menopause, post menopause etc. That is something we have to deal with, with varying degrees of pain and inconvenience.

From any employment point of view, it puts us at a massive disadvantage to have these schemes and period leave, menopause leave etc as it just makes us all look incapable and unreliable.

Individuals who are suffering should of course have the support they need but for the vast majority who are able to just get on with it, it does us no favours.

Yes, working at work, off sick if can't work due to a medical issue, irrespective of cause, handled by existing medical and time off policies.

Are the menopause awareness policies really well received though by the people it actually affects? Or are older women more at risk of the chop just smiling and waving and discussing their real feelings about it on threads like this because its career suicide to go against the prevailing gung ho, latest-HR/union-fad-because-they've-run-out-of-things-to-hype-up-and-use -to justify-their-own-jobs?

This thread would indicate possibly not.

I am going through peri-menopause actually.

Our service and talks are there for whoever needs them. Details of the talks and the services we offer are on the health and wellbeing section of our intranet. HR will occasionally send out emails to all our employees of our wellness policies and where to find them, particularly if any have been updated.

If women are not interested in them as it doesn’t affect them, they won’t dial into the sessions, I presume.

Nothing is forced, anyone can attend if they choose to. Our last session was a couple of weeks ago and I hear that it had a huge turn out. The Q’s are confidential and the external adviser will pick out a few questions to answer in general if there are some across a common theme.

People who contact the service for individual support and advice do so confidentially. I know the numbers of those receiving individual support but not who they are.

I totally understand thst in a wider scale but that doesn’t help me right now in this moment and I don’t want to be sacrificed at this stage of my life. Call me selfish, if you want.

The issue isn’t that it is being talked about but it is entirely aimed at keeping the menopausal women in the workplace, explaining their behaviour, rather than pushing that menopausal women are just normal people getting by. Gay rights weren’t pushed in that way, they didn’t try to explain their behaviour, they said their behaviour is just slightly different but still normal. It’s the negative spin on menopause that’s the issue. “This is awful”, no one said thst about being gay. No one ever said being gay affects their ability to concentrate or affects their moods.

Also should you not just be working at work rather than discussing a completely normal part of human aging?

I completely agree. It is totally unhelpful in my view.