To think that menopause talks at work might not be an entirely good thing?

Just to be clear, I don’t work in HR and never have done. I’m not in a bubble.

I lead a very profitable, successful group of companies.

We lead by example compared to other companies in our industry. People leave their jobs to come and work for us. As more and more companies also adopt not only family-friendly policies but also policies that see that someone isn’t just a number on a payroll report but is a person who will occasionally have external pressures, the working world will become a better place.

One of our competitors has recently gone down to a 4 day working week. This is something I’m currently weighing up too.

I don’t see how companies and organisations becoming more progressive and understanding that their employees may have challenges outside of work can be a bad thing.

Those companies that would discriminate someone for not feeling their best whilst going through menopause wouldn’t have a menopause policy in the first place, surely? It’s not like they are mandatory.

and just because YOU thibk it should be discussed at work doesnt mean it should or the majority of actual menopausal women want or welcome it. Try listening to those women, many of whom have come on here and urged caution, for very valid reasons related to their lived experience.

No one is that

but just because YOU don’t want it to be discussed or talked about as a workplace thing doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be.

and noone talks about your individual experience, symptoms etc. if you are fine, great. Carry on. But doesn’t mean others don’t and aren’t benefitting. And I’ve never been seen as incapable or useless where I work thanks.

well it was exactly mine in a large US investment bank in London 10y ago. Maybe things have dramatically improved since then. Or maybe you haven't yet hit the point when you're seen as redundant.

nobody is saying menopause isn't a medical thing, and im sure there are all sorts of studies. So what? that doesn't mean all women cant work effectively while experiencing it or that we need, or appreciate, our workplace HR weighing in on it. GPs and menopause specialists should be reviewing this research and directing appropriate legislation, not individual HR teams.

And the discrimination of women over men has not been mine my friends experience- but as stated , we work in large corporates so maybe they are different

There is much research out there on the impact on the brain because the reproduction system and brain are connected and linked. Brain scans show the impact

leading, Neuroscientists like, as just one example, dr Lisa Mosconi shows this emphatically . As do others.

and I never said all women 50+ leave as a result. But many do and again there is data to support this.

if people are ignorantly if this and don’t want to do there own research to understand this that’s on them but doesn’t t make it less correct

im all for educating companies and policies to support, just as I am for pregnancy, maternity and parenting.

if individuals don’t want to partake or talk, thats fine, but these things shouldn’t simply be stopped because a few people don’t like it

Unlike menopause considerations, maternity legislation is an absolute necessity: not just for the women concerned but also - for obvious reasons - for society generally. And I think it’s naive to assume that women are not discriminated against for being of childbearing age, even if many women never have maternity leave from work.

All women do go through menopause though, and to insist on highlighting the difficulties that some women have, and insisting on special measures and considerations, just makes for more employers feeling justified at favouring men over women.

I feel like there's enough awareness now in the media, online to not make a big deal of it at work and single women out. What about manopause? Men also suffer from lower hormones, ageing etc but we don't bang on about that in workplaces. I know it's not quite the same but still, it feels well intentioned but easily weaponised by sexist or ageist colleagues to keep women of a certain age in their place, just when they are finally ready to really step up with kids older and more headspace to commit to their careers. I am sure they mean well but it's not really the time or place - it's personal.

I dont hide anything. I simply discuss my medical issues with medical professionals, and discreetly with HR if needed, and get on with my work at work. That's not the same thing. I'm happy to lobby for better menopause awareness by GPs, and do.

Yanbu i had to develop and deliver an awareness course and just wanted to die tbh

And employers still discriminate (even subconsciously) against women of child bearing age as a result sadly

So because men don’t get it we should hide the struggles that some woman face? Where has that ever advanced our rights.

but many, many, many people currently still do, outside of your HR bubble, particularly male senior managers. Can't you understand that point?

Absolutely. History shows us that many of our rights have been gained through making as much noise as possible

It needs to be balanced.
I also think a lot of these initiatives are lead by people who you really wouldn’t want knowing your personal business.

Well thank goodness more people don’t think like you or we wouldn’t have the maternity legislation that we have today.

Everyone was saying the exact same thing when people were fighting for decent, paid maternity leave and legislation that protected pregnant women.

It only causes harm in workplaces where such difficulties are treated as a sign of inferiority. I can easily believe some women have experience this, because society has a habit of finding new ways to discriminate against women. But the answer isn’t to hide it or pretend it isn’t happening. The more openly we talk about it, the more understanding there is, and that benefits all women. Hiding it only reinforces the very negatives we’re trying to challenge.

Exactly. I used to have to make a point in job interviews of saying I had no intention of having children, but apparently being past child bearing age isn’t a bar to discrimination

I think women are shooting ourselves in the foot if we demand special accommodation, it will be used against us by men in positions of authority to deny us career advancement, as it'll be just another thing which makes women unreliable.

This x 100000000 ^^

Im amazed some can’t see that they’re setting women back decades with this nonsense.

That’s not what this thread’s about. No one doubts that some women struggle with menopause.

It’s whether or not a big deal should be made of it in the workplace that’s the issue. The constant “awareness” and calls for special measures to be put in place for middle aged women because they’re all doo-lally and incapable are really not in womens best interests.

Anyone, male or female with a health issue that affects their work should be given sympathetic consideration from their employers; menopause does not need to be a special case.

I totally agree with you - we had an online meeting about menopause awareness at work, and it made perimenopausal women sounds like a significant risk to the business, due to our potential to cry or scream at inopportune moments, we're fated to to forget everything they've ever known, and we're constantly fidgeting as so uncomfortable in their skins.

The leader wanted us to lobby for special paid leave for menopause symptoms.

It was all women at the session I was at, and a few of us challenged the leaders description of the inevitability of debilitating peri symptoms, and the damage that demanding special treatment would have to woman's careers.

We were more or less told that we weren't thinking about women with worse symptoms than ours, and that we needed to demand special accommodation, in the name of equality.

I think women are shooting ourselves in the foot if we demand special accommodation, it will be used against us by men in positions of authority to deny us career advancement, as it'll be just another thing which makes women unreliable.

I have kids and my career progress stalled when they were small, the price so many mothers pay. I don't want to be seen as a probably poor performer from 45-55 due to menopause - it's a reason for my employers not to trust me, not to promote me, and line me up for any potential redundancies.

Our policies and the support we provide have had very positive feedback and uptake.

We have more women in senior and mid-level leadership positions than men now, just.

Everyone that works for us knows that we put a huge amount of effort into wellbeing. It is natural that we would have a menopause policy. It isn’t an outlier in our organisation. We provide lots of different things for lots of different people. There isn’t scrutiny of women in their 50’s over and above any other sections of our workforce.

But like an awful lot of organisations, we have looked at why there has historically been fewer women in senior management than men. Middle management was becoming better through enhanced maternity, paternity and parental leave. But senior management was still suffering.

The result of all these policies is that we have extremely low staff turnover for our sector. We choose to plough all our efforts into retaining, developing and promoting staff rather than recruitment.

No but they use it to judge in many places, I don’t want to be seen as useless just because I am over 40