Resident doctors synicsl strike again

You think your description of "dirty, low class non-training jobs" is appropriate? That is a perfect example of someone thinking those jobs were inferior and is a very disrespectful.

In comparison I said Trust grade doctors do not have the same training opportunities as doctors on a formal training programme.

@PurpleFairyLights not sure how that's implying 'inferior'. Weird.

Thought this was pertinent. It's like they want an NHS without doctors.

@mumsneedwine I think they are attempting to say that I look down on Trust grade jobs. Another example of twisting people's posts to suit agenda.

I have merely pointed out that Trust grade doctors do not have the same training opportunities as doctors on a formal training programme.

Therefore my DS as a surgical trainee needed to apply for higher surgical training after ST2 to become a consultant surgeon.

There may be other ways of becoming a consultant surgeon without being on a formal training programme but it is a difficult, less travelled road.

They are not asking for a pay rise. They are asking for pay restoration. Because during the pandemic their pay went down by over 30% in real terms. They'd just like it to go back.

And yes, so did other jobs. They too can strike if they want to. Or find another employer.

@Everanewbie it's called a legal right to strike, a basic employment law in this country. It's how woman got equal pay (thanks Ford workers), maternity leave, paid holidays. Not a new phenomenon.

Never heard of a deal where the terms are contingent on giving up your employment rights. But as people seem to hate doctors I expect they think they shouldn't even be paid or get holiday.

@mumsneedwine does threatening long strikes for inflation busting pay rises not count as blackmail? Or is it only when the government does it?

They weren't new jobs anyway. Just LED ones being made into training posts for 1 year. Blackmail is not a good negotiation technique in HR !

Foolish stance.

Again, please quote where I have talked about 'lesser' jobs ??? My DD would have loved the opportunity to have done a few years as a JCF but couldn't turn down training as was so hard to get. And so few JCF roles. She would have loved to locum for a bit but again no jobs. Many friends were unemployed last year - not sure doctors used to have to deal with that ?

She also worked as an HCA (including on Covid ICU) and knows the value of every person in a hospital. Not sure where this comment has come from ?

This is batshit. You have been repeatedly rude, shouty and disingenuous in every post. I'm not wasting any more time responding to you. Your obvious jealousy is not my issue.

@HugoElephant Are you always so rude? You introduced the notion that doctors have to stick with the nhs as public sector employees which of course they don’t. You think other professionals, that you don’t name, can get £110,000 like a consultant by moving jobs a few times. That’s more than a primary head, more than most HR professionals and more than most architects. These are all professionals but you seem to suggest your career is the one that we should measure against. Not anyone else. I don’t understand your logic. Doctors are better paid than the majority in any walk of life. Others can earn more but it’s not a given a grad doctor could actually compete with them. Skills are different. You only have to look at what degree has the best financial return overall, and its doctors. This was even true before the Labour government's generosity. I take issue with the belief other professionals (? who?) can just walk into £140,000 jobs after, say, 15 years post grad.

30 years as a consultant is suggesting they become a consultant at 30. Is that the case? £110,000 at 30 seems very good to me.

This is a thread about doctors and they are professionals so of course the parallel is professionals in the private sector. This is painful.

Suzy has it, the problem is that not all juniors will become consultants. Some will remain LE some will be GPs.

Oh and the pensions are phenomenal. Its not reasonable to compare against corporate jobs where the pension is worth a fraction.

The problem with medicine is the pay is vastly skewed towards consultants, who can and do earn masses.

Also lots of consultants I know seem to have deals where by they get paid to do "0.8 of an NHS contract", but it doesn't take the hours it pays, and then do 0.4 or even 0.5 of a private contract on top. And they are not working super long hours to fit this in - we are seeing them on school run, socialising in evenings etc.

Basically the consultants get all the money.

In case anyone likes facts

@HugoElephant So you think everyone is a professional do you? How can that be? Even in professional roles there’s no wide choice of jobs to get up the pay ladder for many. I do know about some professions by the way! I also know about the economy and redundancies and lack of jobs.

Please quote the nasty remarks ? I'm intrigued.

I'm talking job markets for high calibre professionals. I suspect you are talking about something else entirely going by your posting style.

@HugoElephant Are you a man? Histrionics? You might have worked for donkeys years but times are very different now and I’m amazed you don’t know that. Your story and career simply isn’t replicated everywhere.

No need for the histrionics. No clue whatsoever, I've only worked in it in a range of executive roles for thirty years. As I said, the market ultimately decides worth and is often a good reality check but of course that can go either way.

@HugoElephant You obviously have NO idea about the private sector. If only it was THAT easy to change jobs and shift pay upwards! It’s obviously not easy and impossible for many. Lots of sectors are shrinking. Have you heard of AI?

@mumsneedwine

Well happily schoolchildren don't get to do the hiring and firing in the NHS.

@PurpleFairyLights if you are trying to have a go at me about "nasty remarks" made about your son you really must quote me directly, you can't just make things up. You chose to be outraged because I asked politely if he had got a job yet. Hardly a nasty remark. And later you implied that he was doing something fairly impressive, so that's alright then isn't it?

On the other hand all the nasty remarks and misinformation listed by marchesman above were made by you two.