Resident doctors synicsl strike again

The hours they work are insane, the impact on their personal lives is immense, they miss life events with friends and family because of inflexible work schedules. Unless you know or live with a doctor you honestly can’t have an insight into just how much this profession demands.

Sorry - that is so outdated. 44 hrs per week is not excessive and every profession has schedules that cause issues for family events this is not unique. The working hours are not the 100+ of yester year and have not been for a long time.

Better working conditions for all, not just a few.

Or it could be that Oxford is so difficult to get in to (UCAT of 3092, compulsory chemistry A level, and the mean number of A stars at GCSE for successful candidates is 10.3) that fewer people apply because they know they don't stand a chance.

Keele on the other hand probably has a long queue because they only want 1700 for UCAT, either Biology of Chemistry at A level, and 5 GCSE's at grade 7. Hardly taxing.

What on earth is the 'most selective medical school' ? Currently this would be Keele as has most UK applicants per place, easiest Oxford as least UK applicants per place.

It was shit for me so should also be shit for you is a strange attitude these days. Most people want to make things better. Why wouldn't you want things to improve - constant rotations don't seem necessary for PAs who are on ST4 rotas, so why is it for doctors ?

And no idea who thinks they are awesome- just tired and over worked. Has anyone claimed to be awesome ???

What on earth is the 'most selective medical school' ? Currently this would be Keele as has most UK applicants per place, easiest Oxford as least UK applicants per place.

It was shit for me so should also be shit for you is a strange attitude these days. Most people want to make things better. Why wouldn't you want things to improve - constant rotations don't seem necessary for PAs who are on ST4 rotas, so why is it for doctors ?

And no idea who thinks they are awesome- just tired and over worked. Has anyone claimed to be awesome ???

I know thread has moved on… but to remove employment is illogical, because the power of strikes are in their ability to bring about improvement in pay and conditions. If employment could be withdrawn (workers fired) then strikes would have no impact. Workers are unpaid during strikes.

That is illogical

Not once has anyone said trust jobs are inferior. They provide less training and progression, but no one has said they are worth less. There are however less of them these days.

And not everyone can just move abroad. Visas are expensive.

Why do they have training programmes then if Trust grades have equal training opportunities to trainees?

Are you telling us that a trust grade would get as much theatre time as a surgical trainee on a 6 year higher surgical training programme paid for by a deanery?

The GMC survey feedback would end up with deanery pulling their trainees out.

Trust grade contracts are usually 6 months to a year. Training programmes far longer.

The days of working towards consultancy via Trust grade jobs finished when training programmes were introduced.

Comedy gold that you call me a denigrator of trust grade jobs for saying trust grades do not have the same training opportunities as specialty trainees (they don't) when you described your trust grade jobs as "dirty low class non training jobs". Unbelievable lack of self-awareness.

And purple the biggest denigrator of trust grade jobs thinks they are inferior and people get worse training - which is absolutely not true and insulting to those of us who do deliver training. Coling oyur heels not progressing oyu training I think was one of your opinions on another thread. Long established posts stating these jobs are inferior - no oyu did not strictly use the words but both you and mums are firmly of the opinion that a trust grade job was inferior and of little value to a junior doctor when you patently have no clue on what the roles are and how the people are treated.
Having done a number I would say my experience is more than yours. As we have 10 in our department I know they get treated the same get the same training opportunities as the numbered trainees - so would say past, and present knowledge first hand rather than hearsay.

And yes I moved country to get a job because there were none - so nothing new on the facing unemployment. When i finished my SPR training there were no jobs so I did some more trianing in another inferior trust grade job, moved country and then returned .

What is new

And purple the biggest denigrator of trust grade jobs thinks they are inferior and people get worse training - which is absolutely not true and insulting to those of us who do deliver training. Coling oyur heels not progressing oyu training I think was one of your opinions on another thread. Long established posts stating these jobs are inferior - no oyu did not strictly use the words but both you and mums are firmly of the opinion that a trust grade job was inferior and of little value to a junior doctor when you patently have no clue on what the roles are and how the people are treated.
Having done a number I would say my experience is more than yours. As we have 10 in our department I know they get treated the same get the same training opportunities as the numbered trainees - so would say past, and present knowledge first hand rather than hearsay.

And yes I moved country to get a job because there were none - so nothing new on the facing unemployment. When i finished my SPR training there were no jobs so I did some more trianing in another inferior trust grade job, moved country and then returned .

What is new

I was taught in the most selective medical school in the country. I was comfortably in the top decile of my year and I didn't get my consultant post until I was 39; most of my peers went into general practice whether that was what they wanted or not. In the course of my training I passed my Royal College exams at the first sitting, did an MD, 1 in 3s (1 in 4s if I was lucky), and moved seven times, between Bristol and Edinburgh. In the middle of my career I got the first jobs that I applied for, but I applied for 12 jobs before I got onto an SHO rotation, and I applied for 12 consultant posts before I got the one I wanted.

Entry to medical school is approximately ten times less competitive now than it was then; and most courses are much less challenging because student satisfaction surveys became a thing, and traditional preclinical years were hard work and entrants now lack the necessary basic sciences that they require. Graduates do not lack confidence (although in fact their confidence is demonstrably inversely proportional to their competence) and they are given explicit information about how to achieve career progression.

But they complain about training jobs being difficult to get, when most don't apply for them. When they do apply, most of the unsuccessful ones are simply not appointable. They complain about the hours, the pay, having too much responsibility (despite on-site registrar cover), having to do research, having to move to another part of the country.

As a simple first step to improving the situation, I would impress on them that being "awesome" is not enough.

I was taught in the most selective medical school in the country. I was comfortably in the top decile of my year and I didn't get my consultant post until I was 39; most of my peers went into general practice whether that was what they wanted or not. In the course of my training I passed my Royal College exams at the first sitting, did an MD, 1 in 3s (1 in 4s if I was lucky), and moved seven times, between Bristol and Edinburgh. In the middle of my career I got the first jobs that I applied for, but I applied for 12 jobs before I got onto an SHO rotation, and I applied for 12 consultant posts before I got the one I wanted.

Entry to medical school is approximately ten times less competitive now than it was then; and most courses are much less challenging because student satisfaction surveys became a thing, and traditional preclinical years were hard work and entrants now lack the necessary basic sciences that they require. Graduates do not lack confidence (although in fact their confidence is demonstrably inversely proportional to their competence) and they are given explicit information about how to achieve career progression.

But they complain about training jobs being difficult to get, when most don't apply for them. When they do apply, most of the unsuccessful ones are simply not appointable. They complain about the hours, the pay, having too much responsibility (despite on-site registrar cover), having to do research, having to move to another part of the country.

As a simple first step to improving the situation, I would impress on them that being "awesome" is not enough.

30 yrs as a consultant equates to people becoming a consultant at 37 with retirement now 67.
Believe me I did not walk into a 140k after 15+ yrs of training, did dirty low class non training jobs that mums and purple think are inferior, did research and moved countries twice to learn new skills and worked in 12 hospitals from Scunthorpe to the south coast, time in OZ and Switzerland - it was circa 85K, 4 degrees, a membership or 2 and 15 yrs of doing 1;3 to 1;5 24 hr on call rotas! That means 80-120 hrs per week in non medical terms.

It was hard work like a lot of jobs and most of it I enjoyed - no real complaints but the thought I walked into a cushy consultant job is laughable and insulting

I'm married to a doctor. I do not hate them. I don't like the arrogance of the BMA. They even feel the need to wade in on the middle east conflict for goodness sakes, with 6th form common room level statements. I don't think there is an occupation anywhere in the UK that is paid what they were in 2008 in real terms. The BMA seem to think that inflation only affects them.

Resident Doctors would be better served campaigning on conditions; about how they're posted anywhere, destroying family relationships in the process, about how they need to do so much ass kissing for opportunities in an archaic hierarchical environment that the rest of civilised society left behind years ago.

But they've just had 30-odd percent. That's the stuff of dreams for the rest of the population.

I'd be surprised if that is accurate.

You're not allowed to strike over conditions anymore.

I'm married to a doctor. I do not hate them. I don't like the arrogance of the BMA. They even feel the need to wade in on the middle east conflict for goodness sakes, with 6th form common room level statements. I don't think there is an occupation anywhere in the UK that is paid what they were in 2008 in real terms. The BMA seem to think that inflation only affects them.

Resident Doctors would be better served campaigning on conditions; about how they're posted anywhere, destroying family relationships in the process, about how they need to do so much ass kissing for opportunities in an archaic hierarchical environment that the rest of civilised society left behind years ago.

But they've just had 30-odd percent. That's the stuff of dreams for the rest of the population.

@Everanewbie it's called a legal right to strike, a basic employment law in this country. It's how woman got equal pay (thanks Ford workers), maternity leave, paid holidays. Not a new phenomenon.

Never heard of a deal where the terms are contingent on giving up your employment rights. But as people seem to hate doctors I expect they think they shouldn't even be paid or get holiday.

@PurpleFairyLights not sure how that's implying 'inferior'. Weird.

Thought this was pertinent. It's like they want an NHS without doctors.