Resident doctors synicsl strike again

The two things arent connected. You dont get paid extra just because your job involves health. You should get paid well, which they are.

Ive seen what doctors get re pensions and other benefits. They are greedy to demand more. And their wage and benefits are underwritten by taxpayers and their jobs arent vulnerable to AI

They knew exactly what they were signing up for when the started at medical school. Knew the situation, the input, the hours, the pay scales. They knew. It's hard graft at first, but it's short term pain for very, very good long term gain.

They don't save lives or have the amount of responsibility that doctors and paramedics
etc have.

They are asking for pay restoration not rise.

There are an awful lot of bright hardworking people in this country who aren't doctors and who will have to cough up more tax to pay the wage rise of already very well paid people.

You really are being very unpleasant about a cohort of very bright and hard working people.

Is it a competition? Doctors seem to think they have it worse than everyone else whereas most people can see they do pretty well.

If we have to compare a lawyer, 7 years is a long time to be in a higher education. And then when you qualify you have to start from scratch to specialise which can take many years and many long hours. And yet lawyers dont get the fat pension and final salary scheme underwritten by taxpayers. Neither they can't use people's lives to extort more pay out of the government.

I think if doctors strike this time they are greedy.

If you have a vocation you wouldn't be striking if it endangers lives. So if you do strike you don't have a vocation (just in my opinion of course).

If you don't have a vocation and you complain about the wage structure of the career you knew about and still chose, then you're probably in it for the money.

If you want more than the high pay and unbelievable benefits a doctor has once they are senior then you chose the wrong career. Do a career where you get more cash, sooner. Like Goldman Sachs. Although unfortunately if you try striking with them to get more dosh you can't use people's lives as a threat.

Just underlines my point about it taking so little time to become a solicitor.

A person who wishes to qualify as a solicitor but did a non law degree then has 2 years of law school (after 3 years of uni) plus two years of training before they qualify.

Unfortunately you lost me at "educate yourself...". Far too BLM lingo for any subsequent point to be taken seriously.

They can't reduce their hours more, they already get far less training than doctors used to because they work shorter hours. They, and all their apologists, forget that junior doctors are still training. The most junior of them aren't even allowed to work unsupervised.

Sorry, did someone appoint you to run this thread?

You do know it's meant to be a discussion?

Massively competitive at each step

Engineering, law and architecture sound like a walk in the park, frankly.

And NHS pension is career average, the same as every other NHS employee.

Hilarious to state a lawyer who doesn't study law has to study it for a couple of years!!
Ummm otherwise they are not a lawyer.

Please educate yourself on what a doctor's training looks like to become a specialist. Realise it's massively competent each step of the way.

Not comparable to these other careers, by many years.

That’s not less than our resident drs though?

Then they know they will can £300k (£500k+ USA).

@OhDear111 oh wow! Your husband did FOUR years postgrad to get his CENg status.

I think you are the uneducated one!

Doctors do 5(or 6) years at uni.
2 years foundation programme.
minimum 3 years (GP) postgrad training but this can be a lot longer - 7 years (anaesthetics), 8 years (surgery).
During this time they change hospital every 3-6 months.

So most hospital doctors have done at least 7 years often 11 before they become a consultant.

They do at least one post grad qualification usually composed of three sets of exams which they pay for themselves along with all study and revision materials. My experience of engineers is that their firms paid for the CEng portfolio costs and provided support.

I have seen friends going through training for other professions I know the costs, time and input required.

It’s a very demanding job that is physically and mentally very draining. The shifts are intense as staffing is threadbare. NHS is always over stretched. Not uncommon for a resident dr to be taking on several roles at once ie operating, but also holding the on call bleep and then meant to help in clinic all at the same time 🙈. Most days are chaotic. Some people are very negative about these hardworking professionals which doesn’t help morale.

If you want more graphic detail think wee so concentrated it’s practically brown/orange by the end of their 14 hour shifts and very little food/ drink throughout that period. Regularly. Not just on the odd busy day!! 30,000 steps not uncommon. Insane amount of interaction throughout the day and decision making. Pulled this way and that. On high alert non stop.

Its all very broken at the moment and is tough for all staff (not just drs).

If it was all working well we’d have happy doctors happy patients wouldn’t we? Clearly isn’t is it as we don’t.

Also the huge pensions and early retirement. You’re referring to people aged 50+. Not the resident drs that are striking. Or even the younger consultants. Check out the nhs career average pension scheme they are all paying into. It’s not what you’re describing. Same across the whole public sector. Retirement 67/ inline with state retirement.

Full time drs hours are often 60 hours a week in my experience so part time 60% or 80% people are still working other people’s ‘full time’ hours of 40 hours at least.

Maybe you’re older and know older generations of drs. I know lots that are all early 40s or under. If they’re part time it’s for young kids. Or occasionally for life balance because they ‘only’ want to do 40 hours a week and not make themselves ill! I personally don’t know any 45 or under dr doing it for the reasons you’re saying.

@Pineneedlesincarpet Totally agree. Dd as a barrister did 3 years after her first degree and that was 4 years MFL. DH is a Chartered engineer. For students now, that’s 4 years MEng degree and at least 4 years post degree professional development that’s mandatory if you want to be Chartered. Doctors never ever look at their full
package and seem to think all other professional careers pay more. It’s very uneducated!

The biggest insult is that newly qualified physician associates start on more money than junior doctors, but with a fraction of the training. I know quite a few residents who quote that as what decided them on striking.

The benefits a doctor gets at the end of their career and post retirement are unmatched by most other professions. They are in a career that has job security generally and will not be replaced by AI. If you decide to do medicine you will be well aware of what you will be facing. Its like someone starting at Goldman Sachs and complaining about the hours; you know what you are in for; the financial rewards just come later for a doctor.

My issue is that the country is on its knees and doctors are well paid and their wage and pension are underwritten by the taxpayer unlike in the private sector. Its just because people will die that they have such power over the government to strike. I don't think its fair. I do think care workers should be paid more though.

A lawyer does two years extra after uni if they didnt do a law degree and then two years training before qualification. That they have to pay for. An architect, a vet.. they take longer to qualify than a doctor. Im not saying they are better or worse than a doctor. Im jist saying doctors arent alone in working long hours having had a long time in training

@1ladybird With part time working being very often agreed, overtime payments, a fantastic career structure, huge pensions with huge input from the state and early retirement, what’s wrong exactly? There are many things there other people would absolutely “die” for. Yet the complaints are never ending. They really do earn a decent amount with a super employment package. I’ve actually met many lovely and happy doctors. I tend to think this is the tail wagging the dog and it’s reasonable for the government to want waiting lists shorter. Some waiting times for life saving operations are a total disgrace. We need to totally rethink the nhs.

I understood that the exception reporting system was reformed as a way to end the strikes. The new system went live on 4th of Feb and doctors get paid much quicker now. It’s easy overtime for them, reporting for the time they spent beyond the time their shift was meant to finish. It’s mainly foundation years that are reporting, not so much more senior residents. No other nhs staff group can do this.

Yes all of that which highlights what I’m saying- not enough doctors and not a competitive pay/ system. Whatever reason they’ve left. Including the older/ senior ones for whatever their financial reasons may be. They’d stay if it was favourable to do so.

If pay was competitive and conditions more favourable there wouldn’t be a problem with dr strikes and staffing would there.

NHS absolutely needs organising better.

Some hospitals (many that I’m aware of) have resident drs organising the rotas of their peer resident drs in their departments for instance. Why?! Someone should be employed admin/ HR to do this properly.

You can tell when someone who hasn’t a clue on rotas has been left in charge for a 6 month stint..! Just one of many many inefficiencies.

Retiring doctors? Or those electing to work part time to save paying tax on huge pension pots? I agree NHS planning is the pits but I think they say yes to part time working when companies that need to make money would not. Most things are in favour of the doctors, not the public. There should be much better planning.