Resident doctors synicsl strike again

I think this strike is a sign of how stretched the system is, and it's really not good. I have lived in the same area for a very long time and I can see how bad things have got since the pandemic. 2 years ago, I was sent to A&E by my GP with symptoms which were dismissed and no imaging was done. No letter followed either to recommend the GP carry out any further checks. Turns out those symptoms were linked to a condition which got properly diagnosed only recently, and ONLY because I went private to get the flipping imaging done. Two years. Now I will need fairly major surgery in a couple of months. That really worries me about how much is being missed nowadays because unless you present with something that is immediately life-threatening, there are many many gaps that you may end up falling through.

This is something many parents do though...or their DC just have to move away to an area with cheaper housing and travel into work.

Then they should have done much more thorough research. But if they didn't bother to do that, then once at medical school (and up to speed on what being a doctor entailed) they could very easily have transfered to a different degree, if they believed the system was unfair, too brutal, underpaid.

They will have top class GCSE and A Level results, after all. So if they're so unhappy with their prospects as a doctor, why not do something else? STEM? Finance?

God knows, medicine is massively over subscribed, so plenty of equally bright and clever students never get a place at medical school.

@poetryandwineI think there’s a lot of smoke and mirrors with this. Some doctors might be offered overtime and not toil. I think, as the general public, there’s a lot of interest in getting the waiting list moving and having more efficient and effective A&E. We know we have many part time doctors and organising staffing is a nightmare. I don’t know the fine details of the contract, but these are national contracts. Each trust doesn’t make up their own contractual obligations. It suits striking workers to paint a bleak picture. Obviously. That doesn’t mean it’s the true picture. It’s smoke and mirrors.

If @Destiny123 is rostered today, it isn’t likely she will have time for MumsNet.

I don’t have the sense she is being disingenuous by failing to mention TOIL. If her employer is not paying overtime, that looks like a breach of contract.

Are any doctors here familiar with this situation?

Are unhonoured contracts a current source of frustration? A historical one? Is this a rite of passage that is perceived differently now, compared to the past, or is the issue (if it is one) simply another sign that the NHS is coming apart at the seams?

In any case, I cannot see how a new contract will help with this. I would prefer for the existing one to be honoured, though.

I was with you right up until the part where these poor Drs have to work with obstructive nurses. No need to shit on another profession. Nurses are the absolute mainstay of an NHS hospital, have equally difficult conditions, relatively poor pay, and have relatively (much) less power. I couldn't do my job without my nursing colleagues and I'd stand alongside them rather than picking them out as an example of why it's just so hard to be a doctor that we need more money.

What’s this about overtime? Do you opt for TOIL instead?

The published information appears very clear that one or the other is to be provided and that employers who fail on this count may be subject to fines.

Are you telling us that all of this is window dressing?

It's 48h on average. This week I'm rostered 70, I'll be significantly over that. My only "short" (10h day) this week was actually 13.5h as I had to intubate a few week old baby that was sick. Our overtime isn't paid. I've still got 3x12.5h shifts left before I have another day off

That and beyond my food shop and a 30min gym class I've spent the entire of my only day off completing my portfolio admin paperwork to complete training so have had zilch rest

What is your inside info of drs salaries? Is it a sibling or a close friend or ex? Or a different nhs employee?

You don’t sound the way you talk like you are a dr. Sound a bit resentful of the idea drs should get paid competitively?

Just curious!

The pro pay rise on the thread are drs/ family members of drs - which is no surprise.

My quote was for a previous poster who said junior doctors in the US get paid $45k a year whereas UK get £95k. Simply they didn’t give a true comparison for same level of experience.

As you have said it varies region to region in USA. Completely different system I know. Point was they are not paid $45K Pa for a surgeon 10 years post med school in the USA. Which is the UK salary they were quoting.

If this is the US average, there should be a good number of examples, as well as many higher paying posts.

However….

UCLA, one of the world’s top medical schools, in a very expensive part of a high COL city. A Y9 resident is on $131,000. And that is Y9 after a Postgraduate four year medical degree, so a 35 year old.

It is similar to the Specialty Training in the UK for which salaries easily exceed £100,000 - I think the top Specialty Training salary here is about £110,000. These numbers are very close.

Only a relatively few similar examples at major medical schools in urban centres offer similar salaries.

I would ask you for a specific reference, but I suspect this is a case of bad AI rather than a mistake on your part.

For anyone who doesn’t believe me, US resident salaries are easily searchable by hospital. The most prestigious and remunerative are associated to top medical schools. Check out
Harvard, UCLA, UCSF, UCSD, U Chicago, Northwestern, Rush Medical Center, U Washington, Columbia, NYU, Johns Hopkins to get a good idea of resident salaries.

There are many other great medical programmes, but these are excellent ones in in high COL areas.

Show me an example of an st6 on £95K a year in the nhs.

If they worked 70+hrs every week, short staffed, central london, mostly all weekends and nights? Might be possible. Not the average at all. I have a very good understanding of the pay scales. As I say it’s normal for ST8 surgeons who are 10/11+ plus post med school and are at a level where they operate solo etc. Not London. Rest of UK.

You were the one who quoted the supposed pay of juniors in Europe and US? So I was providing you with a more comparable post to the £95k you are quoting. You had picked a different level so it didn’t compare.

Doctors are not poorly paid in comparison to average salaries in the UK. Doctors are underpaid in comparison to other western countries - yes.

Also your facts are not correct/ misleading.

It’s not true that all US ‘Junior’ staff get paid less at all. The very new ones don’t get much first couple of years as they’re not all that useful until they get more experience! Same in UK when F1 or F2. Low resident dr salary. We class very experienced drs in UK as still junior (until it was rebadged resident for that precise reason- it was misleading to members of the public).

Quick Google of senior resident drs in USA:

As of Mar 6, 2026, the average annual pay for a Senior Resident Medical Officer in the United States is $126,559 a year. That’s £95K in British pounds for you.

That’s 4-7 years post med school. £90k you’re referring to in UK is an ST8 surgeon with 10-11 years experience post med school.

US they can the earn £500k PA with lower taxes to pay after this period. UK £110-£120PA and lose half to tax.

So yes globally very different outlook/ reality.

I’m not saying NHS drs should get 5 times what they do as we do not have an American system. However, we should be similar to other Western European countries.

Medical schools admit applicants from the top 25% of the population - entrants to medicine ceased to be "top performing" a long time ago. After they graduate, they are guaranteed employment on salaries that surpass every other degree. They are also much better paid, factoring in inflation and hours worked, than their counterparts prior to the introduction of the EWTD.

The "very top performing kids" generally don't go into medicine because they are able to compete in the real world, where there are often a couple of hundred applicants for each job, and job security is non-existent.

My children were persuaded not to do medicine and have bought houses worth four and five times as much as the house that I owned as a medical registrar at the same age - but that house would still easily be affordable on the salary of a single ST1, working half the hours that I did.

No sympathy from me! They doing this right after a bank holiday. They time their strikes well. They get paid enough when they’re qualified. Selfish fuckwits!

I agree all nhs staff deserve it too. That’s where my original comment comes in though from my first post.

Medicine/ Drs are an international commodity. Supply and demand. We are not paying experienced drs anywhere near as much as the rest of the western world medical field pay. So internationally we will get the scraps. As we would in any field paying less the than going odds. So there in lies the reason why we are short staffed and unable to lure the best here and retain people. Also why many home grown leave. It’s only going to get a whole lot worse over the next decade as our economy continues to nosedive.

I think you’re pulling untrue figures out. Very very few resident doctors get £90K.

I’m well aware of currency exchange thank you 😆 The € and $ examples you gave are comparably to NHS resident dr salaries on average. When converted to £.

The doctors getting paid £90+K PA as residents drs are ST8 surgeons for example. 10 years post med school. Qualified surgeons. A year or so away from consultants jobs, working 55+ hours a week. Nights, weekends to get the uplifts. Only surgeon in the hospital for trauma calls at night. Possibly still consultants exams to sit but otherwise very competent drs operating by themselves - but in our system still called resident (previously junior) drs.

In many of the other systems you reference they have a different structure. The surgeons who have passed all their surgical exams, but are not yet consultants, would be paid as registrars/ surgeons not very junior house grade. As per the figures you are quoting.

Defo sounds like blackmail. Not a good look.

They are the foot soldiers of the NHS and our future medical and surgical etc consultants. A word to the (not so) wise. These are the ones whose expertise saves lives and looks after ill people.

The entire British workforce would like pay restoration. The rest of us can’t implicitly hold people’s lives hostage.

They really didn't. Regardless of how much work experience and research they do no 17 year old has an objective understanding of what it's like to be a junior doctor, working shifts, making decisions, performing procedures and covering a dozen plus wards on a night shift as an extremely junior doctor in immediate life threatening situations with minimal support. The most junior doctor today started uni pre pandemic, the majority of junior doctors started uni 8-12 years ago some might have started in 2011 things were very different then.

Are you a doctor? Very much doubt it as doctors rarely display such ignorance.

The country’s leading scientists would love to be included in this conversation.

The reduction in medics salaries and job availability is nothing short of ridiculous, especially bearing in mind you are looking at the very top performing kids.
My DH is a medic, at 31 we lived in a house ( 3 beds, garden, 2 garages) thatcost the equivalent of 1 x his annual salary. He worked hard sure, but applied for specific jobs in the region he wanted. As a consultant we put four kids through private school on his salary without a giant private practice ( I’m a teacher so not putting loads into the family pot). As a child from a FSM family he went through university entirely free, he even got three return train tickets a year home paid for.
My DS2, aged 31 now, is also a medic. He lives at home, commutes an hour each way and his girlfriend is 90 mins away in the opposite direction. A similar house to ours at that stage would cost probably 4-5x his annual salary. Each job is basically a lottery, he can get sent anywhere in the UK. His student debt is nearly 100k. He is about to work 7 days in a row, starting with 2 x 13 h shifts on Saturday and Sunday. There is no way he will be able to fund 4 kids through private school, 1 would be a challenge. His 2 younger brothers, with much poorer A level results earn considerably more than him.
These young doctors have been sold an absolute lie.