Resident doctors synicsl strike again

@Pineneedlesincarpet Add in that it’s not just law grads who become lawyers either! Talented non law grads are in the mix too. Doctors are a closed shop!

Not much of a competition when 92% of them are successful.

Exactly. And law school graduates will have spent a fortune and have a high chance of not getting a training contract. At least doctors won't have to contend with AI replacing their jobs either.

Just like law graduates working so hard for their degrees. Have you ever heard them complaining? They are realists.

What an unpleasant comments. It matters to the young doctors that worked so hard to get their degrees then found out they were competing with the rest of the world for a training place

The points that I made are evidence-based, as opposed to your ludicrous anecdotes.

I hope you don't teach a STEM subject.

I put it in another post

It isn't really of any consequence that 6000 of them aren't progressing in
their training, not everyone with a medical degree will progress in the profession now there are so many of them. Streeting, who you seem to rate, has expressly said that there will be no expansion in consultant numbers. So, the actual replacement number at the top of the pyramid, that is GP 's and consultants retiring or leaving is around 2000 a year. There are multiple times that number of graduates every year, ergo they categorically will not all progress.

Medicine has become like law, where not every graduate with a law degree will get a training contract, or like acting where not everyone with a drama degree will end up at the National Theatre. It just seems to be taking an inordinately long time for medicine graduates and their families to grasp this concept. Striking for more money will actually exacerbate the problem.

And how long, on average, was that, @PurpleFairyLights ?

I agree. If I understand correctly we pay to train Drs then that expertise is utilised in other countries so we have to pay to train more Drs to fulfil our needs and thus the money to pay better salaries to those who do stay isn't always there, but I may have an over simplified view and lack of understanding of the situation and I put my hands up to that

Having said that you can't blame them for seeking better pay and recognition elsewhere

This is absolute bollocks, did you even read my post. My medic DS, with much better A levels than his 2 younger brothers ( and more years of working experience) earns much less than them on their graduate salaries.
Loads and loads of different jobs pay their graduates much more than the first few years of junior medic life.
And as a teacher medicine remains the aspiration of many of our highest performers at A level, despite me suggesting other better paid, fewer working hours careers to them.

Your SIL presumably chose to be a doctor and knew about the pay. When she gets on a bit in her career her pay, pension and benefits will be exceptional. A lot better than most get on here, particularlyin the private sector. And underwritten by the taxpayer which is a great advantage in these times.

The last GMC workforce report that looked at progress after FY2 was 2024, and the most recent data then showed that 56% of F2 doctors did not apply to core or specialty training when they finished F2 training.

Of those who did apply, 92% received an offer.

I’d love some of you to work 3 back to back 12 hour night shifts as an a&e doctor in a deprived northern town as my SiL-to-be is this weekend, literally making life and death decisions, often without a break, earn £42k a year and then tell me that doctors are overpaid whiners.

So many people who want to pull up the ladder and watch the rest of society race to the bottom.

All grateful for a doctor when you need one though eh?

Possibly not but approx 6000 are not in training so not progressing their careers and taking whatever work they can find. This is not a good look for the country.

Why not watch the House of Lords debates? Or check the BMA statement saying 52% of F2s had no work to go to?

The impact will be felt for years to come. It is always sensible to look long term as the UK legislation will not fix 5 years of UKMGs not being prioritised.

There were mostly enough specialty training posts. In 2024 there were 12,743 training posts.

In 2025 the problem was 20,803 IMGs (International Medical Graduates) also applied with around 12,305 UKMG (UK Medical Graduates) giving a total of 33,108 applicants for around 12000 training places (figures for amount of training places in 2025 not published to my knowledge).

So the UK had the ridiculous situation that 63% of applicants for specialty training were IMGs that were applying on equal or more favourable terms to UKMGs.

Thankfully the government saw sense and the Medical Training (Prioritisation) bill is now law. The UK had UKMG prioritisation until January 2020. 195 other countries prioritise their own medical graduates.

However, the damage it has done in the form of unemployed UKMGs is yet to be quantified. The UK spends 4 billion a year on medical training. The BMA stated in August 2025 that 52% of F2s had no work.

The House of Lords stated that 30% of specialty training posts go to IMGs and that statistically IMGs are more likely to leave the UK workforce within 6 years of joining compared to UKMGs. This could cause problems in the future with skills gaps.

The problems about career progression and debt are real. I support the resident doctors regarding these concerns.

If indemnity is an issue, there is surely a way to solve it outside of the salary structure. In the same way the employer could absorb other professional costs if these are real obstacles.

Medical student debt is special only because the length of study means there is more of it. An overhaul of the student loan system would serve medical students as well as everyone else, and pressing for this would gain much more public support.

@Marchesman is a doctor and thoroughly informed about medical education over a period of decades. Whether you agree with her or not, she brings a worthy perspective to the conversation. Slagging off her and others who do the same does the strikers’ cause no good whatsoever.

As an academic I think the focus on pay restoration is misplaced. I think the public might get behind focus on career progression and the loan burdens, especially wholesale reform of the latter.

The whole public sector suffers from lack if pay restoration. If resident doctors are slightly worse off than others (and they are) it is from a high 2008 base that has now largely been restored. Teachers, nurses and others doing a bit better in percentage terms started from acknowledged underpay.

How does any other non state run profession solve its' issues? If people don't like the pay don't join. It's not rocket science. Rocket science is a lot harder.

It's to do with there not being enough speciality training places after the foundation years I think. my son's friend is an FY1 and percentage wise there are significantly less places than when he started medical school. He's going to have to fight for a job. My son's friend loves what he does, and is not so fussed about the money.

@Marchesman It’s interesting to see how a well oiled PR onslaught skews views and facts. No one bothers with facts do they? These degrees produce the best paid of all graduates. As you say, they all get jobs. There can be bottle necks but it’s a job for life, and after getting on the degree, grads are set for life with the best pensions and lots of opportunities to work part time. Other highly paid jobs are significantly more competitive and msny doctors would not like them or thrive.