Resident doctors synicsl strike again

So no FY1s won't be doing c-sections, however in A&E the first doctor you see will nearly almost always be a FY2/FY1 so may well be the one to identify something amiss eg: appendicitis, heart attacks, strokes, sepsis and yes sometimes cancer so absolutely saving lives. I don't think circa 50K is a lot really especially as much of their working week is outside 9-5 Monday-Friday.

Your last sentence just ruins all your other arguments. Using the threat of health to get more cash out of taxpayers is why people are turning against the BMA and looking at doctors differently. No longer simply people with a vocation to help others.

And they earn £45k as they do 70 hour weeks, nights and long days. It's not for doing 9-5. They'll often be the first doctor you'll see at night if having a heart attack.

But many F1s don't get 'overtime' or do nights as they are given placeholders roles which only give contracted basic hours. Surely you know this as a doctor ??

Doctors are tax payers too. And make huge contributions to their own pensions. Overtime ? No, contracted rota hours they have to work and are paid basic time for, unless after 9pm when they get a (smaller than the rest of NHS) night allowance.
Being paid for a 72 hour week that is not negotiable but demanded, being made to move every 6-12 months with no say in the location - who is being selective.
But then you seem to have a grudge against doctors and believe lawyers are all just so amazing, so hopefully they'll be able to treat you when you are sick.

F1s are on a base salary of £38K+. In addition they get overtime and 37% extra for unsociable hours like everyone else on the resident doctor contract. All data suggest that many do earn in the region of £45K.

You can’t have it both ways: either they are overworked and being paid for it, or they aren’t so overworked. If the strikes are truly about violations of contract, which has not been suggested, a pay rise is not the answer anyway.

BTW F1s are not ‘doing your C-section or diagnosing your cancer’ either.

@mumsneedwine Please read and understand the overtime payments now available and the huge contributions we make to pensions. These are a fantastic overall package not enjoyed by others. You pick and choose info to suit your “work” position as supporting and advising dc who want a medical career and your DD. The truth is somewhat different. If it’s so bad, why do you bother? Of course it’s well paid or dc would be doing something else. A glittering career as a cleaner maybe?

Nor do F1s. Please learn to read and comprehend better.

Don't be silly. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, we all know hospital cleaners don't earn £45000 a year.

Non doctors, such as PAs, ACPs, ANPs earn more than doctors for doing less of a responsible job (they shouldn't be doing your C section or diagnosing your cancer). On any bank holiday the lowest paid person in any hospital is the F1. Porters and cleaners earn more.
The money could come from having less non doctors. Or paying their assistants less than the doctors themselves.

I did hold my nerve and denied, but I am pretty sure they didn’t believe me.
In this instance I am absolutely sure that descriptions of my kids jobs (obviously 1 in isolation isn’t an issue, ie it is clear I have a son who is a junior medic from this thread) but certainly if one was to triangulate the jobs of the others then I would be very recognisable to others, and I am well aware of several people who I know use mumsnet, not that i ever say i do.

Interesting.

You could have held your nerve and denied it.

Perhaps you did post something very revealing. Bland descriptions of your children’s jobs and salaries (not that I am interested, but apparently this is relevant for a point you made earlier) seem unlikely to fall into that category.

I know have been recognised @poetryandwine because in both of the cases I was told by the person who had recognised me!
The last time it was someone at work, who I had never discussed any internet activity with at all, and they said out of the blue “oh you are - insert username- on mumsnet, I was following your post on ….”

Edit: omit ‘the data’ from the first line in my post of 23.03

Where do they want this money to come from? I remember having a Twitter argument once (albeit with NHS nurses) who said they wanted to get paid more. I said something around the lines of having more private insurance involvement and having a social insurance model. Some competition and free markets would mean they would get paid more. They had a huff and puff about "privatisation" and said they weren't greedy. But then I said they wanted to get paid more and expected us to foot the extra bill.

People may think they get recognised. How do they know?

In any case the data unless @JaffavsCookie ’s answer is ‘My daughter is a bishop in the Church of England and my son is a BBC news anchor’, which is overly specific anyway, her children’s professions are not likely to be the vehicle.

Could you please address the statistics from the 2024 GMC report, @PurpleFairyLights ?

I have already indicated sympathy for career progression problems but if people will not apply for jobs that is a bit different.

That is utter rubbish. People get recognised on MN a lot.

Are you sure you are a doctor? I find it incredible that you (say) are working as a doctor in the NHS and have no idea that trainees on a training programmes take priority in training opportunities over Trust grades.

Also do you know that the deanery would pull the trainees out if they did not have sufficient training experiences as Trust grades got equal priority.

The trust grade doctors do not get the same priority for training experiences. They may get some training depending on their contract. If they did doctors would not be concerned about getting into specialty training.

You should know that becoming a consultant via an alternative route to a formal training programme is not for the faint hearted.

@JaffavsCookie And the number of applicants for one fast track civil service job is??? Look at the stats and weep. Ditto with law.

It’s all very well saying why are lawyers mentioned, but 30,000 get law degrees each year. How many of them walk into jobs paying £42,000 plus overtime? An absolute handful. Then there’s non law grads too. They can be 40% of law training position intake. You then clearly see why doctors are well off when compared to many. Ease of getting work, the best earnings of all grads as a cohort and gold plated pensions enabling early retirement. And yes @poetryandwine, I agree others do make a phenomenal contribution to this country in terms of law, engineering infrastructure and economic growth etc.

Of course they could, the specific combinations of jobs is unlikely to be a very common occurrence and I have been “outed” on here before twice over the years.

You don’t see the work of the lawyers protecting your rights, of the many people from all disciplines who work equally hard the country free and safe. And, in a different way, to keep the citizenry alive and well. That’s the way it should be.

None are asking to be seen as heroes. I don’t think doctors do, either. I assume most would be embarrassed to read about their so called heroics on this thread.

MumsNet has about 8M unique users per month. Unless your DC work for small, regional employers it is very unlikely that these data could be outing in any way.

If you can find some useful statistics for 2025, please inform us.

Otherwise, appreciate that @Marchesman is sharing the most up to date data that exists.

Does the GMC publish a comprehensive report every year? This one is really very good, and has cost a fair amount of effort. My discipline would only do this every few years.