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Resident doctors synicsl strike again

739 replies

uneffingbelievable · 25/03/2026 20:22

The resident doctors have once again announced a 6 day strike to co incide with a bank holiday weekend.

Whilst I support fair pay and working conditions I have lost all sympathy with them. This is not poverty when you are being paid as a whole package 40-95000 gross on a 44 hr week depending on your seniority.

The arguments about lack of jobs did not stack up with more jobs going to home graduates than IMGS despite the hysteria and a huge number of home graduates not even bothering to apply.

They are coming across as tone deaf and entitled or am I missing something.

OP posts:
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15
Neurodiversitydoctor · 29/03/2026 14:42

Marchesman · 29/03/2026 14:37

"A bit" doesn't need to be very long. Private hospitals need junior doctors too.

Doctors also pursue countless occupations outside the NHS at all points post qualification in the pharmaceutical industry, occupational health, biotech, forensic medicine etc.

To say that doctors only have one potential employer, the NHS, as stated earlier, is very silly.

Being a RMO in a private hospital is a mug's game. No training, no career progression.

Marchesman · 29/03/2026 14:38

dizzydizzydizzy · 29/03/2026 14:35

Not many other 23 year olds have the responsibility of being the first port of call for dozens of very sick people in the middle of the night.

The first port of call is usually a nurse.

Marchesman · 29/03/2026 14:37

PintsOfBeer · 29/03/2026 13:52

They have to work for the NHS for a bit, then they can go private.

"A bit" doesn't need to be very long. Private hospitals need junior doctors too.

Doctors also pursue countless occupations outside the NHS at all points post qualification in the pharmaceutical industry, occupational health, biotech, forensic medicine etc.

To say that doctors only have one potential employer, the NHS, as stated earlier, is very silly.

dizzydizzydizzy · 29/03/2026 14:35

MidnightMeltdown · 25/03/2026 22:08

Agree OP. They are selfish and entitled and think that they’re special just because they studied medicine. 23 year old kids with a LOT to learn who think and that they should be in mega bucks

Most 23 year olds would be happy to have a job in the current economic climate. Sick to death of their entitled whinging. Prove yourselves, and maybe you’ll earn more one day.

Not many other 23 year olds have the responsibility of being the first port of call for dozens of very sick people in the middle of the night.

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 13:58

PintsOfBeer · 29/03/2026 13:52

They have to work for the NHS for a bit, then they can go private.

Thanks. A rather different statement.

PintsOfBeer · 29/03/2026 13:52

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 13:44

’Doctors can only work for the NHS’ ???

News to my surgeon. I was in too much pain to wait for an NHS opening. Luckily most of the excellent surgeons at my local NHS hospital also work privately.

How can we trust anything you present as fact, unless you provide a source?

They have to work for the NHS for a bit, then they can go private.

PintsOfBeer · 29/03/2026 13:51

Main thing would be to get rid of the NHS monopsony on doctors.

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 13:44

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 13:34

If you own a company that is doing well enough to employ lots of people you are very likely earning enough for that company to pay into a pension scheme.
Doctors can only work for the NHS so that's their employer - yes it's more generous than most, but what has a pension that they can't take until late 60s got to do with their pay when they are 23 ?
No one has offered to reduce pension contributions and give more take home pay. Why ? Because the current doctors are paying for the huge pensions if the old consultants - the pension used to be amazing, but less so for current doctors in their 20s.
Wes should offer reduced pension contributions as younger doctors would love it - they just want more money in their pockets now. To fund extortionate GMC, exam and royal college mandatory fees. Oh and indemnity.

’Doctors can only work for the NHS’ ???

News to my surgeon. I was in too much pain to wait for an NHS opening. Luckily most of the excellent surgeons at my local NHS hospital also work privately.

How can we trust anything you present as fact, unless you provide a source?

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 13:39

PS isn't UKGrad prioritisation an awesome development ! Well done Wes on that.

(pokes bear with large stick)

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 13:38

Good to see the usual UK doctor haters turn up as soon as I post 😂. I shall expect the usual patronising, derogatory remarks very soon.

No one has ever said it's a bad career. But they are badly treated and the pay is 28% lower than 10 years ago, using the data that the government use to fix student finance loan rate.

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 13:35

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 10:51

Whenever a porter is on an unsocial hours wage, so too will be the rostered F1. The F1’s hourly wage, topped up by 37%, will beat the much lower porters’s wage topped up by 67%.

Oh, wait. The unsocial hours for porters start and end one hour earlier than those for resident doctors. So from 8-9 pm experienced porters may - gasp, horror! - earn approximately as much as F1s. But then from 6-7 am the pay gap is very large in favour of the F1s.

Delving into the details is not helpful, because the comparison is misconceived.

Doctors do not get enhanced pay on bank holidays. Agenda for Change staff do.

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 13:34

If you own a company that is doing well enough to employ lots of people you are very likely earning enough for that company to pay into a pension scheme.
Doctors can only work for the NHS so that's their employer - yes it's more generous than most, but what has a pension that they can't take until late 60s got to do with their pay when they are 23 ?
No one has offered to reduce pension contributions and give more take home pay. Why ? Because the current doctors are paying for the huge pensions if the old consultants - the pension used to be amazing, but less so for current doctors in their 20s.
Wes should offer reduced pension contributions as younger doctors would love it - they just want more money in their pockets now. To fund extortionate GMC, exam and royal college mandatory fees. Oh and indemnity.

OhDear111 · 29/03/2026 12:46

@mumsneedwine Doctors do make pension contributions but for a much shorter period than, say, many self employed people who get 0 contribution from the state. This is many SME owners. Doctors get around 28% from the state. It’s outrageous really that those who employ millions of people get nothing. The suggested input for them is 20% of earnings. If you don’t make a loss of course!

Marchesman · 29/03/2026 11:49

NHS Staff Earnings Estimates shows what people have really been paid (in the first set of tables). I guess porters are unspecified in the hotel property and estates group. If anyone wants to play the "who would you rather have look after you in a life and death situation" card, look at F1s vs midwives.

digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-staff-earnings-estimates/august-2025

And LEO data indicates how well a medical degree compared with other degrees before doctors' pay rises.

https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/data-tables/fast-track/7b7ffc28-f161-410b-fff2-08ddaa5c7a14

With competition ratios of 80-140:1 for graduate jobs in general, it is unsurprising that pupils with indifferent academic results often develop a fleeting "passion for medicine".

Create your own tables on leo graduate and postgraduate outcomes

Create and download your own custom data tables by choosing your areas of interest using filters to build your table from leo graduate and postgraduate outcomes

https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/data-tables/fast-track/7b7ffc28-f161-410b-fff2-08ddaa5c7a14

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 10:51

Neurodiversitydoctor · 29/03/2026 09:52

Whenever a porter is on an unsocial hours wage, so too will be the rostered F1. The F1’s hourly wage, topped up by 37%, will beat the much lower porters’s wage topped up by 67%.

Oh, wait. The unsocial hours for porters start and end one hour earlier than those for resident doctors. So from 8-9 pm experienced porters may - gasp, horror! - earn approximately as much as F1s. But then from 6-7 am the pay gap is very large in favour of the F1s.

Delving into the details is not helpful, because the comparison is misconceived.

WalkDontWalk · 29/03/2026 10:45

UniquePinkSwan · 26/03/2026 08:59

Why is it always the American system that gets mentioned? There are far better systems out there we could go to. It’s needed. The NHS is not fit for purpose and I’m sick of the cult status surrounding it

You should get a medicine for that.

HelenaWaiting · 29/03/2026 10:38

NoSoupForU · 25/03/2026 21:22

I'm an engineer and earn significantly more than that salary range. The starting salary is broadly similar to my starting salary 20 or so years ago.

Resident doctors do have experience. They don't enter their residency until they've qualified and they can't qualify without hands on experience. They then also have at least a couple years foundation experience.

You're mistaken. In the UK "resident doctors" includes foundation doctors in mandatory training. So not a lot of experience.

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 10:35

Minnie798 · 29/03/2026 10:18

Most porters are on £12. 51 per hour basic rate ( will increase slightly in April). Enhanced rate for bank holidays/ nights/ weekends as per agenda for change. Medical staff do not want to be on agenda for change terms and conditions, I believe that has been rejected as a proposal previously.
If there has been a comparison made with a porters wage, it must have been for those who are in a managerial role, with numerous leadership responsibilities. That is what said 'porters' are being paid a reasonable wage for, not to move equipment around and do the basics of hospital work. Why are the BMA comparing junior drs wages to those in management.

Edited

Thank you.

The comparison was very well publicised, particularly on previous MN threads. It was supposed to make us indignant for the poor F1s. I found it odious in the abstract and now it appears to be wrong.

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 10:32

Minnie798 · 25/03/2026 22:00

I think a package where university fees are paid for, in exchange for an agreed period of nhs service and a commitment to more training posts would serve the medical profession better.
Another 28% pay rise will not address the biggest concern ( lack of training posts). It will probably exacerbate the problem - nhs trusts will likely leave training posts unfilled, to address the deficit the pay rises will create in the staffing budget.

I like your idea, except I would make the tuition support retroactive.

We should really overhaul the tuition loan system and the whole HE sector. Within that there is room to acknowledge the extra tuition burdens of medical doctors.

Within the present system I would be happy to halt interest payments during F1 and F2, and start some type of loan forgiveness during the Core/Specialty Training years and beyond, commensurate with NHS service.

Training posts would need to exist, and Foundation doctors would need to apply for them. No special breaks during a hiatus as the 2024 GMC report says the large majority of Foundation doctors now take. That’s not a criticism, but the taxpayer should not be funding such breaks.

Minnie798 · 29/03/2026 10:18

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 09:41

@mumsneedwine and others who repeat it:

Will someone please break down the hospital porter salary claim for me? I just don’t see it, so correct my data:

The NHS website informs me that hospital porters are on Grade 2 and Grade 3. The latter are experienced, with salaries of £30K reserved for Team Leaders and such. It is wrong to assume all porters are on this salary, but we can generously assume a salary of £28K on average for a 37.5 hr week. That’s a bit higher than what published data says.

They work 45 weeks/year, for a total of 1687.5 hrs, giving an hourly rate of £16.59.

*The contract for resident doctors since 2016 states that they for an average 40 hour week and that overtime must be paid.

Since late 2025 overtime can be submitted directly to HR to minimise tensions and conflicts of interest.

So we must assume a 40 hr average week and take up separately the question of whether the contract is being honoured. *

Assume an F1 doctor is on a 40 hour week. They work the same 45 weeks. So, an extra 2.5 hours/week x 45 weeks, a total of 1800 hours. Without assuming any enhancements for unsociable hours, the hourly pay rate is
£38,831/1800 = £21.57.

Please explain how 16.59 > 21.57?

If we assume a 44 hour work week, which has been claimed on this thread but which I cannot find in writing, the unenhanced F1 pay still wins.

I think that whoever began publicising this appalling piece of false data may have used the top porter salary in a hospital. That’s likely to be a very responsible supervisory position of a higher band involving supervision of hundreds of people. Of course that person makes more.

For the allegedly egalitarian BMJ to appeal to people’s snobbishness on this count without doing basic arithmetic was shocking.

And no, @mumsneedwine , never once have I claimed to be a medical doctor. I would not consider this particularly desirable. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else.

Most porters are on £12. 51 per hour basic rate ( will increase slightly in April). Enhanced rate for bank holidays/ nights/ weekends as per agenda for change. Medical staff do not want to be on agenda for change terms and conditions, I believe that has been rejected as a proposal previously.
If there has been a comparison made with a porters wage, it must have been for those who are in a managerial role, with numerous leadership responsibilities. That is what said 'porters' are being paid a reasonable wage for, not to move equipment around and do the basics of hospital work. Why are the BMA comparing junior drs wages to those in management.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 29/03/2026 09:47

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 09:41

@mumsneedwine and others who repeat it:

Will someone please break down the hospital porter salary claim for me? I just don’t see it, so correct my data:

The NHS website informs me that hospital porters are on Grade 2 and Grade 3. The latter are experienced, with salaries of £30K reserved for Team Leaders and such. It is wrong to assume all porters are on this salary, but we can generously assume a salary of £28K on average for a 37.5 hr week. That’s a bit higher than what published data says.

They work 45 weeks/year, for a total of 1687.5 hrs, giving an hourly rate of £16.59.

*The contract for resident doctors since 2016 states that they for an average 40 hour week and that overtime must be paid.

Since late 2025 overtime can be submitted directly to HR to minimise tensions and conflicts of interest.

So we must assume a 40 hr average week and take up separately the question of whether the contract is being honoured. *

Assume an F1 doctor is on a 40 hour week. They work the same 45 weeks. So, an extra 2.5 hours/week x 45 weeks, a total of 1800 hours. Without assuming any enhancements for unsociable hours, the hourly pay rate is
£38,831/1800 = £21.57.

Please explain how 16.59 > 21.57?

If we assume a 44 hour work week, which has been claimed on this thread but which I cannot find in writing, the unenhanced F1 pay still wins.

I think that whoever began publicising this appalling piece of false data may have used the top porter salary in a hospital. That’s likely to be a very responsible supervisory position of a higher band involving supervision of hundreds of people. Of course that person makes more.

For the allegedly egalitarian BMJ to appeal to people’s snobbishness on this count without doing basic arithmetic was shocking.

And no, @mumsneedwine , never once have I claimed to be a medical doctor. I would not consider this particularly desirable. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else.

I think porters get 2/3 unsocial hours uplift.- I might be wrong.

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 09:46

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 09:02

And they earn £45k as they do 70 hour weeks, nights and long days. It's not for doing 9-5. They'll often be the first doctor you'll see at night if having a heart attack.

Any F1 working 70 hr weeks should berolling in £££ from the overtime and unsociable hours pay.

If this happens for weeks on end, it violates the EWTD, a serious breach. If contracts aren’t being honoured, the public will sympathise and get behind that. But don’t focus your demands on more money, then.

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 09:41

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 09:00

But many F1s don't get 'overtime' or do nights as they are given placeholders roles which only give contracted basic hours. Surely you know this as a doctor ??

@mumsneedwine and others who repeat it:

Will someone please break down the hospital porter salary claim for me? I just don’t see it, so correct my data:

The NHS website informs me that hospital porters are on Grade 2 and Grade 3. The latter are experienced, with salaries of £30K reserved for Team Leaders and such. It is wrong to assume all porters are on this salary, but we can generously assume a salary of £28K on average for a 37.5 hr week. That’s a bit higher than what published data says.

They work 45 weeks/year, for a total of 1687.5 hrs, giving an hourly rate of £16.59.

*The contract for resident doctors since 2016 states that they for an average 40 hour week and that overtime must be paid.

Since late 2025 overtime can be submitted directly to HR to minimise tensions and conflicts of interest.

So we must assume a 40 hr average week and take up separately the question of whether the contract is being honoured. *

Assume an F1 doctor is on a 40 hour week. They work the same 45 weeks. So, an extra 2.5 hours/week x 45 weeks, a total of 1800 hours. Without assuming any enhancements for unsociable hours, the hourly pay rate is
£38,831/1800 = £21.57.

Please explain how 16.59 > 21.57?

If we assume a 44 hour work week, which has been claimed on this thread but which I cannot find in writing, the unenhanced F1 pay still wins.

I think that whoever began publicising this appalling piece of false data may have used the top porter salary in a hospital. That’s likely to be a very responsible supervisory position of a higher band involving supervision of hundreds of people. Of course that person makes more.

For the allegedly egalitarian BMJ to appeal to people’s snobbishness on this count without doing basic arithmetic was shocking.

And no, @mumsneedwine , never once have I claimed to be a medical doctor. I would not consider this particularly desirable. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 29/03/2026 09:26

Neurodiversitydoctor · 29/03/2026 09:24

So no FY1s won't be doing c-sections, however in A&E the first doctor you see will nearly almost always be a FY2/FY1 so may well be the one to identify something amiss eg: appendicitis, heart attacks, strokes, sepsis and yes sometimes cancer so absolutely saving lives. I don't think circa 50K is a lot really especially as much of their working week is outside 9-5 Monday-Friday.

Sorry meant to quote previous poster mummyneedswine is absolutely right.