Resident doctors synicsl strike again

Many jobs come with huge responsibility. Junior doctors knew they would be responsible for people's lives and they knew what the pay structure was.

If they believed the money wasn't enough for the amount of responsibility then they shouldn't have applied to do medicine.

The lack of knowledge from many ( not you) about how little PAs are trained, and how much they earn is scary. They are often on 70k +, can’t order mris, or cts can’t prescribe or diagnose
literally whats the point of them

This splitting of hairs is silly and isn’t going to make any converts.

The ‘doctors as heroes’ brigade could consider the military. If saving lives is heroic, what about risking and quite possibly losing your life on the basis of policies enacted by your democratically elected leaders?

Resident doctor salaries compare well to military salaries, including combat pay. The military pay uplift for 24/7 duty appears to be just under 15%.

Entry into the SAS, from the regular Army only, is vastly more competitive than entry to medicine, the training can literally be lethal, the pay lags resident doctor pay, the working conditions are infinitely worse, and I think members if the SAS would find the kind of talk around resident doctors’ specialness and salary toe curling. The same is true of regular military.

Focus on the legitimate issues if you want the public on your side.

Did you read the complete offer Wes gave them ? That if they accept they can not strike again for 3 years (for anything). Along with several pretty anti employment law contracts, brought in at the v last minute when a deal was almost agreed ?

And meanwhile the GMC are trying to change the law so they decide who can be a consultant on the register (anyone as long as they have completed a few tasks). So not all consultants will be doctors. Instead of a 5 year degree, 7-10 years training and many v hard and pricey exams, you'll get your consultant after a 3 year history degree, 18 month PA course and a few years doing a few tasks. No diagnostic training, no pharmacology, limited anatomy.

Im sure some will love this idea. Personally, I'd like to see a doctor.

You’re missing the point. I was commenting on the fact that they have a massive amount of responsibility. What they did or didn’t know at the outset is irrelevant.

A 23yo in an office job makes a bad mistake and, at worst, the company has to spend lots of money to sort it out. A 23yo doctor makes a bad mistake and the patient might die.

A 23 yo soldier makes a bad decision; s/he and their comrades die. If commissioned, the soldier is on comparable base pay to F2: if enlisted, less, possibly much less. The soldier’s pay uplifts for considerably harsher working conditions are much less generous, also.

I don’t think the soldier cares and I have never seen a forum where they bang on about it. Do you really think this is the way to bring the public to your side?

mums and purple - what are you two on.

Yes alot of FY1 jobs do not have an on call element - why? because the F1s were saying they found it too stressful and did not want to do it. so some areas stopped it in response to their feedback. Some jobs - public health do not require an out of hours element - are you advocating we pay them for work not done aswell. They wanted the more diverse jobs instead of the tradiational medicine and surgery six months - and those jobs do not always ahve unsoocial horus. You can not whinge for change and when you get the change you wanted then whinge about the change means you get paid less.

Deaneries do not pull jobs because the hospital teach trust doctors aswell as trainees. I have never seen a consultant send a trust doctor away and say I need ott each the trainee first because they are in a deanery post - utter utter bollocks and please provide evidence

Yes the CESR route is much harder than having a numbered post - which is why I admire the tencity of those that do it

Very few FY1s and 2s do 70 hour weeks every week of their rota - i think you will find that when they do a week of nights 1 week in 8 or 10 or 12 then they do but the rest are nearer to 40 hr week mark. They would not get through the GWS process.

Bit like ladybird not getting that US residents got paid roughly the same as UK resident but for doing double the average hours which meant the US residents were actually on a crap deal.

Once again too many people believing the absolute rubbish that is being touted as justification for threatening death on the British public

PS not sure there is a resident doctor on here, 'banging in about it'. Just older people with differing views.

Soldiers get free accommodation. And an amazing pension.

Forces doctors as F1s earn 50% more than their non squaddie counterparts. And get their loans repaid.

Did you read the complete offer Wes gave them ? That if they accept they can not strike again for 3 years (for anything). Along with several pretty anti employment law contracts, brought in at the v last minute when a deal was almost agreed ?

And meanwhile the GMC are trying to change the law so they decide who can be a consultant on the register (anyone as long as they have completed a few tasks). So not all consultants will be doctors. Instead of a 5 year degree, 7-10 years training and many v hard and pricey exams, you'll get your consultant after a 3 year history degree, 18 month PA course and a few years doing a few tasks. No diagnostic training, no pharmacology, limited anatomy.

Im sure some will love this idea. Personally, I'd like to see a doctor.

I can't understand why the BMA aren't focussing on university fees.
The nhs paying those, in exchange for nhs service would effectively be a good pay rise anyway. Plus the 50k worth of student loans that take 20+ years to pay back would no longer be a concern. It would be a long term gain for junior drs, very valuable.

A 23 yo soldier makes a bad decision; s/he and their comrades die. If commissioned, the soldier is on comparable base pay to F2: if enlisted, less, possibly much less. The soldier’s pay uplifts for considerably harsher working conditions are much less generous, also.

I don’t think the soldier cares and I have never seen a forum where they bang on about it. Do you really think this is the way to bring the public to your side?

I'm glad too, they are awesome humans. F1 take home when this dispute started was £1,725 a month. Make of that what you will. It's now around £2,300 after student loan and pension.

Who surveyed them and when ??? My own DD worked v many out of hours/nights as an F1 - wasn't a choice.

They don't want a 9/5 job ?? Doctors don't get to choose their hours, they are told what their total is. Day off for your wedding ? Computer says no, as you didn't book it 6 months in advance. Because you don't know where you'll be in 6 months.

You’re missing the point. I was commenting on the fact that they have a massive amount of responsibility. What they did or didn’t know at the outset is irrelevant.

A 23yo in an office job makes a bad mistake and, at worst, the company has to spend lots of money to sort it out. A 23yo doctor makes a bad mistake and the patient might die.

F1s were surveyed and many / the majority found OOH too stressful and wanted to drop it - you can not have it both ways. The delaying of a stressful part of the job for another year does not do them any favours from an experience point of view.

We were asked to increase our F1 allocations and did -all getting trained, all getting paid - what is the problem?

Am struggling to understand what they actually want - a 9-5 job, 4 days per week, a day working form home, a late start and early finish on one day aweek and no weekend working, no OOH, dedicated study time during the day, 1:1 teaching at their convenience and not to be responsible for any decision making - and be paid more? Am I missing something here people do not get sick to a nice timetable and you signed up to work for a 24/7/365 healthcare service

Absolutely.
Basic take home pay for most porters is £1655.23 per month. I'm personally glad that they get enhancements of + 83% for bank holidays/ Sundays and + 41% for a percentage of their night shifts. A higher % uplift than I get for my banding - but so what? In truth, they won't be able to pay their bills on that basic take home pay.
Let's not forget that the national minimum wage increase in April 2025 meant that most porters( and other staff groups) had to be given a pay rise because they had fallen below the legal minimum otherwise! When you look at the figures sensibly, the comparison is actually nonsense- apples to oranges. The BMA needs new leadership I think.

What? Did the student doctors not realise they would, you know, be responsible for their patients? And were they not told that sometimes, you know, people can become ill during the night?

If so, it's outrageous they weren't properly informed about this!

Oh, no wait.....

Resident doctors declined the Agenda for Change.

If anyone is worried that for 8 or 9 statutory Bank Holidays some porters may make similar money to F1s, because of choices made by the BMA, I am speechless.

I presume the statement I quoted was an attempt to rally the troops and possibly an attempt to gather sympathy. It may work on the first count. I would love to place a bet on the second.