Resident doctors synicsl strike again

Nail. On. Head.
Whataboutery at its finest on show here. Never understand why threads about medicine end up discussing law and engineering conditions of work (both of which have hundreds of possible employers so if don't like your job you can move elsewhere).
Don't like doctors ? Fine, don't use them 🤷‍♀️.

A free market instead of state healthcare would ensure high wages

No let’s not have a war on intelligence. Let’s carry on with the war about unhappiness that this thread has turned into. Lawyers work hard so doctors shouldn’t complain about working hard. Teachers are underpaid so doctors shouldn’t complain about pay. Lots of engineers are out of work so doctors shouldn’t mention job insecurity.

I LOATHE this race to the bottom attitude on mn. My / my DC’s / my DH’s pay or conditions are shit. So doctors should have shit as well.

Of all the strange and delusional notions on here this really takes the biscuit. Why, if junior doctors are really, as you would have it, underpaid, overworked, ordered about the countryside, not given time to eat or drink, variously forced to work long shifts but not paid overtime, not given training, and not given jobs for life would any of the obviously intelligent and presumably gainfully employed women on here ENVY them??

As a semi-academic medic I agree. The notion that all UK medical students and medical schools are of a high standard cannot be right. Where an institution has a low bar for entry and teaches little of the basic sciences the output is logically going to be problematic, and there is ample research confirming this.

Exploring UK medical school differences: the MedDifs study of selection, teaching, student and F1 perceptions, postgraduate outcomes and fitness to practise | BMC Medicine | Springer Nature Link

Ad a STEM academic I can confirm that the professional training required of higher level scientists and engineers seems to be beyond the imagination of some medic partisans on this thread.

I know the role originated there and has worked well. What has been happening in the UK is very different, with plans for non -doctors (of which PAs are included, alongside ANPs etc) to deliver the healthcare generally, with minimal/nominal doctor oversight.

This the the NHS LT plan unfortunately. Less focussed on PAs than it was a couple of years ago.

But you didn’t 😆😆😆. Not it our 2 way conversation and I didn’t respond for over a day.

We never discussed working hours - you just said about pay. I converted the currency for you from $ to £ and it is comparable. I never discussed hours with you. Maybe you did with someone else I’m not sure.

You mentioned hours later on down your thread your opinion on hours worked- that I had not replied to.

You're getting yourself all muddled who you’re talking to and what’s been said by who - so don’t quote ppl 😆.

You’re having conversations with yourself.

Pointless talking anymore so I will leave you to it.

Yeah, well DH and I were at university with medics so aren't remotely dazzled by their brainy brilliance, sorry. When you've seen them wearing a toga and being sick down themselves it's hard to see them as Gods.

Academically, they're no more intelligent than most of their peers at university. It's just that they've chosen medicine as opposed to Chemical Engineering or Dentistry etc.

Again the way to lift doctors wages is to change the healthcare system and to you know actually have market competition

Before moving to the UK, I taught at a ‘public Ivy’ in America. My health care was associated with the university’s rather famous medical school. It was a sort of mini NHS, if funding was not an issue. Care was A++.

This does not mean that money was thrown around mindlessly. The reason I am addressing you is that there was a well defined role for PAs. It worked well. In my 15 years in the system your fears did not come to pass.

And a tiny, single room that must be kept immaculately clean and tidy At. All. Times.

Even less of a perk.

I don’t want irresponsible people driving trains! Or flying aircraft for that matter. Or designing high rise buildings where years of training is imperative! It’s rather important they stand up! All of these people deserve decent incomes but Engineers in particular will do the same years as a Doctor in terms of training and specialisms. @KWaldron You are entirely ignorant about engineering I’m afraid. For the highest levels, they are comparable to doctors and sometimes beyond many doctors!

The standard subsidised housing for single members if the military is a single room.

How many people on £38,800 - 90,000+ would choose to live in a single room?

Some perk

This is what their contract says.

If it is not being honoured, that is a separate issue and one the British public would respect. Focus on that instead of a pay uplift in excess of others’ pay rises.

The medical training does involve a lot of hard graft, but the intellectual effort is less than that undertaken by the nation’s leading young scientists. Medics do more tasks and some are brilliant, but you can be a successful doctor with less brain power than it takes to be a successful scientist, and the younger members of the latter class are suffering worse.

I assure you hours worked are comparable.

*Minimal duties^?

The second lieutenant has far slower pay progression and the uplift for 24/7 duties is less than 15%.

Because it's how the government choose to fund these... If we had a private market for both doctors would get paid more and tfl would probably pay less

How dare you compare doctors to accountants and engineers. You obviously have no idea of the years of hard medical training, followed by relentless hard brain work - not to mention the massive difference in hours worked per week. You think doctors work a mere 40 hours for their 38 grand?

Shame on you.

SAS officers will be graduates. Plus they sign on knowing they are genuinely risking their lives every day and could be killed at any moment. Weeks of laying in a ditch, in 45 degree heat or hip deep in jungle slime and leeches, risking capture & torture etc. And still they do all this knowing they will never get any public acclaim or praise.

A damn site more self sacrificing and impressive than being a doctor.

Of course education comes in many forms but on this thread we were comparing other graduate incomes, and the SAS is not comparable in that respect, how utterly silly to think I denigrating their excellent work.
if we are moving to comparing non graduate incomes ( totally off the topic of the thread ) then why do train drivers, tube drivers, refuse operators all earn far far more than junior medics. It says a lot about you that you are trying to twist things and suggest I am saying only a degree is ok.

Yes, stuff can change over 7 years. But they always knew they'd be shouldering a lot of responsibility, would sometimes need to make life/death decisions and 'roughly' what the pay would equate to.

They still chose to do medicine.

WTH?

As someone with one of the intensive PhDs, I think this is one of the most arrogant things I have read on MumsNet. I may be a world expert in my specialism, but SAS have numerous skills I cannot begin to fathom. I know that they also have numerous skills that doctors cannot begin to fathom.

Failing to appreciate that educate comes in many forms is a hallmark of ignorance.