Resident doctors synicsl strike again

One doctor I know did FY1 and FY2 ... And then jumped to do big 4 strategy consulting...

Apart from degree, they are trained by others and don’t pay. In fact we pay

But they ARE working and doing job/providing a service with responsibility and consequences when training - they are not supernumerary, as evidenced by the cancelled operations, clinics etc when they are not around.

Doctors don't pay to become doctors?

They come out with £100k at least student debt and pay back an estimated £150k in interest. Doctors invest £250k themselves to become doctors.

Government invest £160k to train doctors.

@HugoElephant But salary isn’t linked to perceived responsibility is it? Never was and never will be. It’s supply and demand and the public purse. There’s many many people wanting highly paid jobs in London. Very very few get them. Thousands apply for the training positions. Doctors, until recently, do their degree, get their training and have a job for life. Apart from degree, they are trained by others and don’t pay. In fact we pay. If they would love a city career, go and get one but they might find it more difficult then they thought.

Spot on. I had one of those jobs in the nineties and worked bonkers hours. Not magic circle law but big 4 consultancy. However, I was earning six figures by my mid-twenties and that was thirty years ago. What I did had nowhere near the responsibility of a doctor.

Exactly. On LBC this morning they were saying the same. We have so few doctors per capita already.

It’s not a good deal - not in the long term for patients

@Whatisrichandhaveiearnedit That’s not exactly the case. The NHS brings in qualified and trained doctors from abroad. The hospitals find this cheaper than employing young doctors and training them further. The government was making sure this didn’t happen. It’s a good deal.

@Alexandra2001 , @MeetMeOnTheCorner

You cannot compare income between the public and private sectors. The whole set up is different, and YP are aware of this at early stages of career decision making.

Consultants have the option to do lucrative private work.

I don’t understand KS’s logic in threatening to remove 1000 potential training places - surely that ultimately harms patients?

@PurpleFairyLights It’s a very good stanve from the government! 30% in three years is a stonking pay rise. KS isn’t putting up with it and the public have paid enough. Public opinion polls are not supporting the doctors. Over 35% in 4 years is amazingly good. Go Labour leadership. Notice they are getting their overtime over Easter!

It is not a good look for the government.

How much does a lawyer working for a Magic circle law firm earn?

Also, the pp who i replied too, said "many professions" & of course a regional lawyer will not be working these hours, so your example covers a small minority.

@Alexandra2001 Many lawyers! A few hours sleep at times if London based big 4 or American owned.

What other degree level professions do a 52hour week in 4 days?

We control strictly, how many hours a lorry driver can drive for (btw quite a bit less than a Doctor)

Dealing with horrific injuries/diseases etc etc

I used to do on-call, its horrible, your time isn't your own, tied to a phone and can never do anything with the family... can't even go for a decent walk, its actually better to be at work.

On training hours... no you re wrong, 72hrs means you're tired, your ability to learn is compromised... make mistakes, some terminal.

Anyway, Labour behaving like the worst of the Tories now, issuing ultimatum's.... is he trying to do a Trump.

Government running out of patience, inevitably.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c23909pge35o

This article states the union also cite the war in Iran as a reason.

The article suggests that members haven’t voted on the issue and the union has rejected the offer without balloting? Is that true from those if you in the know? Just trying to work out how unbiased the reporting is.

It was the easiest way to do it. The debates in commons and Lords were very interesting.

I think the work visa issue for non-UK national who obtained a medical degree in the UK so has prioritisation for specialty training may be complex. I don't remember it being mentioned.

Definitely debated UK nationals that did their medical degree abroad will not be prioritised.

Whoever attempts to try challenging UK legislation will need deep pockets.

Watch the debates. IMGs will apply and get training places only after the doctors in the priority group are given training places.

It is about where you did your medical degree.

In the debates it was stated that there were a small amount of IMGs on the foundation programme or doing stand alone F2.

It has stopped the huge influx of IMGs applying from outside the UK for specialty training in its tracks which is fantastic news.

I find the pay restoration argument bizarre. All public sector staff have seen real terms decreases over the last 10 years.

You go into medicine to save lives, help people and because you care in my opinion. Junior doctors knew what the salary was when they start and now all of a sudden it’s a problem?

You can't tell the difference between them until you have spent weeks or months teaching them and reviewing their work. The GMC relies on the weak ones dropping out voluntarily, being picked up by their educational supervisors, being unappointable at the point of entry to CT/ST, or failing Royal College exams, or actually being referred to the GMC. The GMC presumably takes this approach because the accepted way of dealing with poor retention is to throw more graduates into the grinder, and inevitably they are the ones who disproportionately possess markers that predict poorer outcomes.

Regarding progression from F2 into training posts, don't expect to see "prioritisation" of UK graduates making much difference. Most F2s who apply for but fail to obtain a training post are not appointable. It looks as though only "appointable but not offered a post" applicants will benefit. The effect will be diluted further by foreign graduates within the F2 cohort who also seem to be marked for prioritisation. It certainly will not be the case that foreign graduates will get jobs "only after all UKGs have one."