Resident doctors synicsl strike again

'F1s could strike and no one would notice'. Personally I think that's pretty rude.

And there is history. Lots of other comments have been made that are derogatory to younger doctors. V v sad.

Nothing to do with my DD, she's doing great thanks.

According to March who said STs are on £80k !!!!

I am Russell Group, and my colleagues have variable feelings towards students.

All agree that students are owed a professional standard of behaviour. How we feel about them, and I write as someone who is largely but not wholly sympathetic (no one is, realistically), is not their concern.

@Marchesman has never suggested less than a professional attitude towards students on MumsNet. Her private opinions are no trainee’s concern. If you can be frank on this thread, and you certainly are, why can’t she?

I could very well be wrong and I am going out on a limb here, but it appears to me that @Marchesman gains her primary professional satisfaction from other aspects of her career than interacting with medical students. In the same way, for the large majority of RG academics our passion is research. That’s why I’ve drawn a possibly shaky analogy.

The post I’ve quoted sounds like it was written by a proud parent with little understanding of the spectrum of a consultant’s professional life.

Completely agree.

I wonder why they bother to work in the NHS with such intellectually inferior UKGs...

And not sure where I've said they are lying ??? Have said they are rude about the F1s they are paid to support - which is strange behaviour from a consultant. And sad.

Some of us have been working all day.

Of course undergraduates in any discipline, in any university in the land, are a mixed lot.

The standard offer in my School is higher than AAA and it quickly becomes apparent that some of our students are weak. They aren’t particularly those on contextual offers. It is to do with depth of understanding, I think.

Though I think @Marchesman makes many points worthy of further analysis, it may be worth mentioning that our students on COs have degree classification outcomes statistically equivalent to the rest. Of course we are but one rather strong school and most of these students are still entering with AAA plus a lot of stamina so they may not be the cohort she is concerned about.

@mumsneedwine all day people have been discussing and even disagreeing civilly on this thread. Within a couple of posts you have started calling a poster rude, and implying that she is lying when she says she is a consultant. Give it a rest.

I do think it's perfectly possible to teach and support juniors while privately thinking that some of them are mentally negligible.

Compared to whom?

Amongst the G7 nations, only Germany has a higher average salary for resident doctors.

In America salaries are set by individual hospitals and a few of the elite are higher, but many are lower. All those jobs you and former BMA spokesperson Dr Melissa Ryan referred to on previous threads paying very high salaries are not resident doctor jobs.

They are service jobs that are advertised internationally because even with the promise of debt forgiveness Americans are not taking them. They are not career progressing or pathway jobs.

Germany is the 3rd most successful global economy, behind America and China. California is the 4th. Of course Germany and America can offer some better experiences to medical residents than the UK.

It is thus far hypothetical

DD will repay over £250,000. Please explain the subsidy ???

And your rudeness towards F1s is quite frankly disgusting from a so called consultant (who is PAID to train them and support them).

😮 I've told DD that she is being severely underpaid as an ST1 !

It's more complicated than that because "resident" doctors are a heterogeneous lot. Core trainees earn on average £70k, and STs £80k, but striking doctors would garner little sympathy if they started banging on about this not being enough. So the BMA focuses on F1s salaries (which are in fact also quite generous - £45k). If only F1s went on strike, I don't think anyone would mind very much.

Many F2s don't apply for a training post, instead they go for for a Locally Employed post and switch to a training post a year or two later. For about half of juniors in LE posts this was their game plan. The BMA likes to give the impression that not having a training post is synonymous with being unemployed after F2, and if LE posts come up they are, as you say, billed as undesirable. But the training is exactly the same, the only difference in practice is that career progression is not automatic.

If the government wanted to fiddle around with this, the jobs and funding already exist, if selection and seniority followed the system for specialist training they would be indistinguishable. At the end of it trainees could all fight over consultant posts on an equal basis. Whether there are enough appointable UK doctors to fill all the extra training posts demanded by the union is different matter.

@uneffingbelievable will have a better handle on whether it would be as simple as this, but I can't see a problem - at least not for this administration.

Not on such a large scale as NHS doctors, though.

The 2024 GMC report referred to by @Marchesman showed that nearly 75% of the 2021 F2s paused their training. Data after that on this cohort are patchy.

UK finances in their present state are such that we cannot finance a career break for 75% of those who may or may not eventually serve as fully qualified NHS doctors. Nor would I consider that equitable. Debt forgiveness for work accomplished, in addition to fair wages and working conditions, is.

@poetryandwineA nominal amount can be attached to it. Say x number of months salary. I had a contract to pay back my fees if I left my employer. It’s perfectly possible.

This is very hard to enforce.

In the absence of a general overhaul of student loans I support the principle but not the implementation.

Pause the interest during F1 and F2 and begin a programme of debt forgiveness during Core or Specialty Training.

Why not? You withdraw your labour? Why can't they withdraw employment?

That is illogical

I agree with this. Qualifying in UK with a heavily subsidised tuition scheme means if a Dr does want to go to Australia upon graduation for more $ they should back pay the real cost of their education.

And I think your employer should be allowed to fire you if you strike

Doesn’t matter what many others would settle for. Many others can negotiate with their unions/sector.

I think workers should have the power to strike, public or private sector - it’s so important especially in a monopoly, which much of the public sector is. In the public sector you can move jobs, negotiate pay, perks etc. Not so much in the public sector.