To think Labour is not the party of the working people.

None of them are, that’s been obvious for a long time hasn't it? It seems to me elections have been won the last few times by simply not being the other party…labour won because they weren’t the tories, the tories won when Corbyn was leader because he they weren’t Corbyn’s labour etc.

The party of non-working people.

At this rate they should just call themselves The Benefits Party. The mooted idea of fuel help only for benefits claimants! It just gets worse.

While weat it the Green Party can be renamed The Islam Pulling the Strings of Fools Party. I see a long-standing member has quit in protest at their abandoning of environmental concerns.

No they are not

Some benefits are already taxable.

What risk? If you don’t have a tenant and you can’t pay the mortgage you sell it. Where’s the risk in that?

We don’t tax benefits because it would be ridiculous and pointless. Like playing shops with public money. Like the idiocy of giving every pensioner WFA and then having to adjust the tax codes of everyone above the threshold.

Completely true Blossom, but you are ignoring the risk element. Or does only hewing branches and hefting logs labouring qualify?

Yes @Tipsowner, I know all of that. The fact remains that any income derived from tenants, whether it pays a mortgage or into the owner’s bank account, is passive. No work has earned it. It’s a fact, not a judgement.

I can't understand why we don't tax EVERYBODY at the same rate, regardless of where the money comes from.
We already tax pensioners if their total income goes above the tax threashold, so why not people claiming benefits, PIP and maintenence?
My DH lost his job last year and now works in a low-paid role for 30 hours a week. He pays tax (his last payslip was £1320 take-home) so i don't understand why it's so controversial to suggest benefits claimants getting the same amoubt also pay tax.
Pulbic sector pensions also need looking at as they are massively out of step with private pension provision and early retirement far too easy.

For the record, I have one commercial property let to a third party, and I am in the process of developing a second. For my pension fund.

It is a transaction. You have a property I want to live in. I pay rent and live there.

The tenants need a home. To get one, you rent or buy, depending on your means. Renting out a house does not commit the owner/landlord to a long term subsidy.

So the money isn’t earnt or worked for, it’s paid by the tenant. It’s hardly disingenuous to point that out - inconvenient though it might be.

And these copper-bottom deals go awry. I refer you to previous posts where I explained that because of a business failure and COVID, we had an £80k hole. Those take several years to fix.

@Blossomtoes, please! Don't be disingenuous. Even in commercial property, you expect the tenant to pay rent, surely. The rent was calculated to pay off the mortgage within the term. Once paid, one worries about the investment plan.

Did you? Or is your rental income from properties on which the tenants are or have been paying the mortgage? How much of your investment income derives from interest or dividends from the investment? You may have earned some of the money to buy it but your rental and investment income require no work on your behalf.

Sticking with Tory?

As do/did we. I just won't be voting for a Reform candidate and @RichardTice , it sounds as if you might.

We have property and investments and rental income.... We earned the money to buy it

@noworklifebalance would you like to define passive wealth, please?

I only ask because you would probably consider me as passive wealth; after 35 years it looks quite similar.

I'm 70. I started my pension when I went freelance in 1990. I borrowed £7500 as cashflow against my next three months work, and I worked like a dog for the next 10 years. All the hours, up at 2:30am for a breakfast meeting 250 miles away. I did it.

But one of my commissions introduced me to the idea of SIPPs, then very new, so I looked at it. We bought an industrial shed, nothing fancy or smart but on the junction of two major arterial roads. Twenty-five years later, that building is paying £40k pa into my pension every year. There have been lean years, like when we lost the tenant to COVID. In a year we were £50k down in lost rent. The next year we spent £30k renovating before we found a new tenant. Commercial property can be profitable, but it can also cost big time. Like all investments, one needs to understand and accept the risks. There is no guarantee, and you are on your own.

I have not inherited anything beyond £400, the price of a nice garden table 30 years ago. Still have it.

Green levy is around 8%. It’s used to pay for renewable energy sources, meaning we can end our heavy reliance on expensive, imported gas.

What about all the green levies?

🙄
versus passive income, inherited wealth

Yes but that is those just claiming housing benefit not on UC, many on UC have the housing benefit included

the average wage especially in the larger cities is not covering living costs and hasn't for a number of years.