To think Labour is not the party of the working people.

Im off to the gym but will read later.

But you cannot do any of the above without getting the electorate on board and having serious honest discussions about what we can afford.

As I said the biggest immediate change would be to scrap the triple lock and put that money into R&D, infrastructure etc.

Care in the home needs to be paid for too as opposed to just care out of the home (see how that went for Theresa May). Maybe the cap should be a % as opposed to an amount.

I already said upthread I believe child benefit and the “free” hours should be universal to not penalise high earners.

Build far more social housing and don’t sell it off - again I’ve already said.

Then there would have to be further changes to healthcare & welfare but I would start with the above.

It is really tough at the moment. I voted labour on the basis that they would focus on growth. But then the taxed employers because they’d penned themselves in on not increasing NI or income tax. But without rejoining the EU, what are the current options to solve the problem? I must admit I’m glad I’m not running things. We’re having to pay off the debt of Covid, the cost of Brexit, still haven’t fully recovered form the financial crisis (thanks Brexit), and now we’ve got a potentially oil crisis that might be similar to the 1970s if trump doesn’t regain some measure of sanity.

my question would be what is the solution here? I find it quite hard to see a quick and easy one. The easy one is to blame the illegal immigrants, but even if that stopped tomorrow it would be insignificant cost wise to the national finances. This is the problem, it’s really difficult.

also, Britain had never cared about working people, we’ve only been allowed to vote for 100 years.

I sort of agree. The previous government left a huge mess and I do think labour have been improving things. However, I strongly object to them dropping the winter fuel allowance cuts and the 2 child benefits cap. They are not supporting working people and instead increasing taxes on working people to subsidize those who don’t work.

@Chaffinch78 well done for picking up on a predictive spelling error!

@Chaffinch78 lower & middle earners are taxed lower than other similar countries but people want similar public services.

Very harsh comment in week I have paid my corporation tax 🙈

@Chaffinch78 I would change lots of things, would you like me to list them?

They wont be voted for though.

Let’s hear your ideas for growth?

I think some politicians genuinely have great intentions but the reality of politics means they can’t do the good things they want to do. I don’t think Starmer believes in half of the shit the party has implemented but he knows he has to play the game. It is one giant game of chess, or risk perhaps. It’s not grounded in reality.

I agree regarding the mythical breakfast clubs. That was quite honestly the one policy we were over the moon about but it’s been two years- almost half way through their tenure and we still don’t have them. In actual fact, our school raised the price.

Our taxes are too "low"?!?!?!

Forgive me as I spend the day picking my jaw up off the floor

Yes! I have already said upthread I would scrap the triple lock immediately & put that money into investment

”The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) said the annual cost of the triple lock policy is estimated to reach £15.5bn by 2030”

Any party who proposes that won’t be voted in though, which is my point!!

Metella you have just said the unsayable truth. The conscientious devoted younger parents who really pour everything into their kids in our little street all have just one son.

The rough families screaming and shouting in the street have many. Concerning.

I think waiting lists are falling because more people are going private. My GP advised me to go to a private dermatologist because the NHS waiting list was too long to avoid scarring. My daughter's consultant told us to get private physio because she would benefit from having it sooner. My mother just got her hip replacement and cataracts done privately because she wants to be independent and mobile for as long as possible as otherwise other health issues will kick in sooner. I don't have a problem with more people paying for healthcare, but it is hardly good labour stuff. They'll probably slap VAT on it soon to punish people for paying for their own healthcare.

Yes and the much spun out Timms review is just a convenient way of shelving/avoiding the whole welfare issue.

You were probably already planning to leave. Give over. Otherwise I would query the decision to leave based on a government who has been in power for less than two years.

’Taxes are too low except for higher earners on PAYE’

Who should pay more?

But the problem is that we are incentivising the wrong people to have children. As a general rule, the “hard working families” who have jobs and pay tax, but also make time to read to their children, take them on educational outings, support with homework, help out in school raising money for the PTA etc. are limiting their family size because they can’t afford to give more than 2/3 children that life. These are the children who, statistically speaking, are more likely to grow up to become net contributors.

Those who feed their kids crisps for breakfast, never read to them and are constantly in school arguing about why their violent child should not be punished are able to have multiple kids because they get more money (and more time exempted from obligations to look for work) for each one. Their kids are, again statistically speaking, more likely to cost the state money when they are adults. Of course we all know of examples of children born in poverty who have become huge success stories but they are exceptions.

if you don't understand how to grow an economy

Do you really believe not one person in this government or the previous Tory ones had any legitimate ideas for growth? Seriously?

The problem is these ideas will not be palatable for the majority of the public.

Reform have become popular as they are perpetuating the myth that we can have the utopia of low tax, great public services & low immigration.