Gift from Dad - now he wants it back?

We are the same my stepmother has a property which I presume is just in her name?
However, my father has been funding her lifestyle for the first 35 years.
If she thinks that Property is just landing in her children’s lap, they going to be in for a shock if she dies first
Although to be fair if he dies first, she can keep it all she’s definitely earned it

So agree with you both.
I have two old friends whose well off stupid fathers remarried within 2 years of their mothers death.
Neither saw a penny of an inheritance as despite him saying she will look after you all, she gave every penny to her own two children.

His whole family speak of him as a stupid silly old fool.

Another friends father married and neither she nor her 4 siblings were allowed to visit the family home.
They too imagined any inheritance would go completely to her children as she was extremely controlling, even though their father did visit them at their homes.
She died very suddenly recently and now they are all back able to visit him in the family home for the first time in 25 years.
He was undoubtedly in an abusive controlling relationship and is so hugely emotional and relieved to be free.
So sad, but a largely happy ending in that now in his 80's he has the chance to be openly with his children again in their family home once more.

I so admire a few widowed friends whom have made it crystal clear that they would never risk their assets by remarrying.
I certainly wouldn't dream of it.

I agree completely with this. So many put their own comfort and convenience first and may be manipulated into providing everything for their second wife at the potential expense of their children.
I am widowed and even if I found love again I would not be inclined to get financially entangled and to complicate things for my children .

He has asked, not demanded. It's not uncommon for family to help out, if they can, in this type of situation. But if you can't that's fine, it doesn't sound like your DD will resent it. The issue is that this has thrown up a lot of emotions for you OP. You feel uncomfortable because of the nature of the gift, uncertainty of the arrangement, anxiety about possible impacts if things don't go to plan, probable feelings about the loss of the 'family home'. All of those feelings are valid and a flashing light not to agree. But don't blame your DD for asking, I dont think he's treating it like his money, but more like treating you as a member of the family who he believes would help out if you could.

Just tell him you've spent it. He can't have what doesn't exist. It was a gift. The end.

This!!! is exactly how men think

I’m not being bitter as I’m still happily married and my husband is a selfless angel. I however saw this happen over and over again in my own family, friends’ families etc.

Men don’t always put their children first the way women do. When their wife dies they are lonely and they get close to their children for a while, but once a new woman is in the picture she becomes the most important thing.

At best they just won’t want to spend time with their children as much as before.

At worst they will give all their money to their new wife and their kids will get nothing.

It makes me absolutely sick in my stomach when I imagine my husband remarrying and his new wife inheriting all of the equity which I built for my children. I have nothing against him finding love when I die, but I also do want my hard earned money to go to my own children, not some floozy. I’m sure your mum would have wanted this too.

THIS

Absolutely not. This was your mum’s money, not his money to build a nest with another woman. Surely he has the money to cover half of the value of the house, she needs to contribute too. If you lend it you might never see it

Just say it’s tied in a long term pension pot which you can’t withdraw before you turn 60 and the rest is in the kids’ uni funds which you don’t want to touch

@ShamedBySiri 100% you don’t know people until money is concerned. My step mother robbed my dad blind and left him absolutely nothing after he got dementia she changed her mirror will and left me and sister with absolutely nothing . People are evil with money .

I'm quite surprised at the number of responses on here saying that OP should lend/return the money, even though it's accounted for and would make things difficult.

It was generous of him to give OP and DB a chunk of money when their mum passed, notionally (though not legally) "from mum". But a gift or bequest is exactly that. The giftor is relinquishing all interest and right to it. Gifts with strings attached aren't really gifts.

I think it was ok(ish) for the dad to ask for a loan but he should have accepted that the answer might be no and for good reason. It sounds like he did accept it, a bit grudgingly, after giving OP a lecture on not "locking up" her money because he wanted to still be free to use it. Shame he didn't take his own advice.

I'm maybe being a bit harsh because my MIL used to behave like this. Very well off but any gifts always came with strings. We learned to say no thanks! It just wasn't worth the loss of peace of mind about whether we really were free to manage certain aspects of our own life or not.

Honestly you don’t have to look far on Mumsnet (or google) to find stories of widowed parents who remarry and suddenly the family money, including that linked to the dead parent disappears one way or another to the new spouse. Especially after death obviously. It’s a tricky situation for OP but she seems to have sorted it and is not giving/lending the money back to her father. I’m sure her mother would have wanted some of her own assets to be passed to her children. And it’s quite likely that after remarriage OP and her brother will find themselves with nothing when the father passes on. This is what has happened with my own FiL. FiL remarried and has now passed. In theory the house and assets should be split 3 ways between DH, SiL and (new) MiL. But it hasn’t been properly wrapped up legally and for various reasons I think it’s highly unlikely anything will come to SH & his sister. FiL also sold up and moved after remarriage but he downsized and spaffed the cash freed up.

Surely it isn't his to have back if it was originally your dm's?

Tell him it will be recorded as a loan and that you will incur losses amounting to x which he needs to repay also written in the document.

He can’t really ask for a gift back as it’s from your mother and recorded as a gift.

And she wouldn't have been able to do that had her father not given her money.

She's put the money aside for them?
And as their mother, her responsibility is to them, not her father.

Hi,

I'm sorry you've been put in a horrid position.

So your dad gives you a financial gift attaching the gift to your mother's name when she passed away.

You register the gift correctly for tax purposes and you invest the money.

Your dad meets a new woman and asks for a third of the money back, with a passive aggressive comment of "i shouldn't have gave you so much money".

You now feel torn as to whether to give your dad this money so that he can afford a nicer home.

You really have 2 choices:

Give your dad the money and accept that you're not going to get it back, make your peace with it and move on. If you do get it back great, but to accept that it's a possibility you might not get it back let's you make peace with the situation rather than resentment.

Or tell your dad that you can't give it back because it's invested and financially you can't afford it and risk putting a blot on your relationship with your dad and his new partner. Now I must add that you're dad is at fault for putting you in this situation but you don't know the conversations he may have had with his new wife and he might be trying to please her.

The saying money is the root of all evil is very true and it tests us. I'm not saying you should give it back or keep it, only you can make that decision, you have to ask yourself what's more important in your life, the money or the relationship?

You have made your decision and explained to your dad why.

It’s the false guilt you have to drop. The gift did not come with conditions. He’s not homeless, in fact, they have two houses between them. It’s not your responsibility to make sure they get the house they want. You have talked through some of his options with him.
You don’t have to feel guilty.

He did say to OP that he'd maybe given her and DB too much...

Your father is what my mother would call an Indian giver. This is not a racist slur. But an old fashioned term for somebody who gives you a gift then asks for it back at a later date.

Was there any legal documents or acknowledgement of the gift to you.

I wouldn't give him one penny piece back and also let him know that you feel hurt Un that he has asked for it back.

Do you think this women who he has hooked with is behind all this?

Bit late now but there is a mechanism to change a will, it's called a deed of variation, and it's more tax efficient than yours dad simply gifting his inheritance.

OP accepted the money as it was made clear that it was her mum's share of their savings that she would want to go to her children.

I'm pretty sure that her mum wouldn't expect OP to give him some of it back so that OP's dad could buy an obviously more expensive 'dream house' with another woman. I think that it is crass of him to even ask.

Virtually nothing is selling round here, even properties that normally sell really quickly and might not realise as much as they expected. @cashquestions money might not be returned for years, no way of knowing.
No reason to suppose that they house they're after would sell quickly either.

@cashquestions no way would I lend it just purely based on the fact she is second wife. Step families soon turn enemies where money is concerned from personal experience. I had a very lovely step mom for 20 years my dad got dementia she robbed him blind upped and left and never spoke to us again. The point is you really don’t know people where money is concerned 👍