How many kids have left the school? (VAT)

I fit into the same category as you but my point is that most parents choosing private school are on average much richer than the average private school parent was 30 years ago. So yeah, it does suck for people like us . I think money is all relative. Objectively, my daughter’s dad earns a lot of money. We’re lucky that he does. If we had two children we couldn’t afford it though.

There’s no need full stop to nudge people away from paying for their own children’s education to the tax payer funded option. It doesn’t make any sense. As for not understanding the ‘fervour’ around it, it’s introducing the first children’s education tax ..in a history of 1000 years!.

Not just on this policy, but in general Labour have really misjudged the general character of the electorate. We’re just not a nation of spiteful envious people who are concerned with pulling others down especially children, Labour will get such a hiding in the May elections.

@Araminta1003 thank you..I've said similar upthread that if this policy had actually, or would actually see state sector provision change to the extent that kids like mine could be provided for within it and I could save myself huge debt, of course I'd get behind it. But it hasn't and wont. The money needed for state schools to become half the size, double the staff and able to offer the kind of flexible individual approach I get in private is way way more than could ever be raised by a measure such as this.

And its not needed across the board...many kids are thriving in busy 1000+ comps, but within each town there ought to be a variety of provision. My kids don't need a specialist school. Mainstream is broadly fine, maybe with a bit more flexibility on options for KS4 and more access to things like Functional Skills, but a smaller, quieter environment where teachers have a tutor group of 12, not 32. Kids are 'seen' and responded to as needed. That would be inclusion, not a 'hub' that separates some from the rest. We need 'the rest' to be such that it doesn't need escaping from.

„But I think the extent of the fervour that a relatively limited measure of VAT on school fees has driven shows the outsized impact that private schools have on our national debate.
“The vast majority of kids go to the local state school. I make no apology for focusing on delivering improvements there and using the money raised through private schools to make that happen.” (BP in the Observer article)

So how much money has been raised and spent directly on state schools? Surely they should be able to clarify that given this answer?

Why would it be ok for them to take money from @RhaenysRocks family and give it to my children? I just don’t get it at all.
If it was very clearly earmarked and spent directly on upping the life chances of really poor children in state schools then people might actually understand. But it isn’t is it?

I wonder how many families sending their kids to private school are crap parents not getting their kids school ready, reading with them, exercising them etc?
Even if you are rich, you are still making a substantial contribution towards your own kid instead of buying a nicer house, more holidays, cars.
So yes, I think it’s a punishment for parents trying their best on the whole for daring to socially segregate their children from the rest and get some extracurricular in during the school day.

As a good state school parent who spends a lot of getting my state school kids a balanced education, I really want to know how Bridget Phillipson intends to provide my children with sport, music and drama in school with zero money for it. Because where I am sitting it’s now 180 pounds a term just for swimming lessons, 240 for instrumental lessons in 1 instrument, 175 for gymnastics etc etc
Providing the „balance“ costs hundreds of pounds a term, per child. Poorer families stand zero chance of doing that now.

„But I think the extent of the fervour that a relatively limited measure of VAT on school fees has driven shows the outsized impact that private schools have on our national debate.
“The vast majority of kids go to the local state school. I make no apology for focusing on delivering improvements there and using the money raised through private schools to make that happen.”

So how much money has been raised and spent directly on state schools? Surely they should be able to clarify that given this answer?

I agreed with all of that until the last sentence. Could you 'easily afford it' if one of your big biggest bills suddenly went up 20%? In the same year that your mortgage almost doubled, council tax and energy and fuel and food went up? For many of us, fees are not a luxury or a choice, they're the only way to obtain a school experience our children can access. Without it both of mine would be at home, in theory being home educated but more likely not as I need to work ft as a single parent....ironically a teacher.

I’m not anti state school at all - I would prefer my daughter to be at the local (lovely) state school. The only reason she is at a private school is that it’s one school that has time to accommodate her. There are other private schools where we were told in no uncertain terms that they would not be willing to. Frequently, she’ll arrive at school and get ‘stuck’, she doesnt want to let go of me and a teacher will have to sit with her and help her feel happy to go to her classroom. She’s a bright little girl who is doing well academically but I’m certain she would be failing in a class of 30 with teachers who have enough on their plates, perhaps with other kids with SEN who aren’t correctly in MS.

Despite all of this, I still understand the VAT policy. It’s one of the fairer ways to tax a group of people who are very much in the minority of being able to afford school fees. And most of them are well off enough to absorb the cost.

Different kids can do well in different schools, there’s no one right school or one size fits all. It’s best to concentrate on the best education options for your own children, and try not to think so much about attempting to block other parents choices.

No not easily offended. Pointing out that kids can do well in state schools. Sorry yours wasn't able to.

I have also found the teaching and pastoral care to be very good, perhaps I'm defensive that there is rudeness towards the teachers from some difficult parents (not saying you are).

https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/bridget-phillipson-we-dont-know-why-british-children-are-some-of-the-unhappiest

Oh dear, oh dear. I think I have the rage after reading that!
Music and drama love? How are you going to fund it?
Do you really think cheap independent schools doing that were raking it in? Have any of these politicians actually got basic statistics skills and can do a spreadsheet and work out costs?

The Labour Party are completely and utterly confused between pushing kids towards STEM at all cost, and a bit of music and drama! And community feel.

And hence I am feeling the menopausal rage at 200 per cent after reading that.

Perhaps she should just focus on regulating vet costs for all and steer well clear of EVERYONE’s children!

You're very welcome, it was pretty stunning to be fair.

@MissingSockDetective thank you for answering my question.

It was a very old castle that had fallen into ruin and been made liveable again, but was made really modern. I suppose more rebuilt and modernised than fully converted. It was a big deal in the local newspapers at the time

The bully was wealthy and the family lived in a converted castle.

What’s a ‘converted castle’?

I would happily pay it if I could see any evidence that it was being ploughed into state but we know it isn't. Also if it had been introduced at next point of entry so children weren't disrupted mid stage. That would have gone a long way to meet the criticism of it being spiteful idealism.

You may well think that taxing children’s education makes sense and is fair, I’d strongly disagree but it’s pointless to argue over it. It’s is however a fact that taxing education will shrink the sector and reduce education options, I can’t see why that would ever be a good thing. You say you will happily pay the tax, but you may well find that if the time came where you needed that option for a child for some reason, that all the independent schools in your area have closed down and been turned into flats.

I may well as I have nothing against either type of school. If I do, I will happily pay the tax as I feel it makes sense and is fair.

No of course I don’t disagree bullying happens in private schools. If private schools aren’t the choice for your children because of bullying or any other reason, absolutely fine. If somebody declines the state funded option and pays for their own children’s education because they think they’d get bullied at state, also absolutely fine. Don’t let yourself get dragged down into trying to limit education options by cheap identity politics, just concentrate on your own eduction choices. You may want that extra choice yourself one day.

Fair enough, I am quite happy to agree to disagree. I also have professional and personal experience and we all see what we see.

My personal experience in a private secondary was particularly nasty. The bully was wealthy and the family lived in a converted castle. Despite making my life a misery, and eventually even hitting me in the head with a hockey stick, she was let off with a mild warning. Anyone with less money and influenxe would have been expelled. I do think this perhaps means I notice and am particularly alert to this type of thing.

See i would disagree with that. In my personal and professional experience. Neither of us are wrong.

Many schools, vast experience. Different types of bullying I'd say, but bullying nonetheless. Private schools are also more likely to turn a blind eye depending on the child/money. I've seen that on too many occasions.

Not sure how you got that from the post you quoted. Noone woth a brain would suggest any school is free of bullying but it is true that pri ate schools can and usually do deal with it more easily..again, anecdotal and Im sure they'll be examples of that not being the case, but in 1000+ comps it is harder to keep tabs.

How vast is your experience? how many schools, how many children?

In my experience bullying does happen in private schools, but cases are tackled immediately and very effectively, up to exclusion, no matter how attractive parent's valet is.

You disagree that bullying happens in private schools? That's fact by the way, not opinion.

Interesting that you are concerned about 'closing off options' when, Surely, that is just what private schools are to the vast majority anyway.

Sounds like people have a difference of opinion on educating their own children. Not surprising and not really a problem. The problem is with those who want to close off options they don’t agree with for other children. That’s a big problem in my view.