Im not excited with announcement of the first grandchild

Better adult regret than children's suffering.

Having a termination that you arent 100% sure about is more likely to lead to regret.

If you have had 10 years of negative pregnancy tests, you would view this very differently.

Poverty is relative to the place you live in.

But the point stands that if you cannot house or feed your children then you should be using contraception if at all possible and managing your fertility.

The film 'Capernaum' makes this point very well - it is about a child suing their parents who had them without thought or consideration to their basic necessities in life and allowed them to suffer because of their selfishness.

It may be fiction, but it is seen all across the world and certainly visible in this country.

I'm not a fan of children suffering due to selfish adults who have free contraception available but can't be bothered to use it properly.

Would you then extend that reasoning to people living in poor countries? 44% of the world's population live in at least moderate poverty, not entitled to breed no? Sounds like negative eugenics to me.

By the sounds if it this particular couple don't seem to be bringing a child into poverty and misery, the father is starting his own business which I hope goes well and the mother seems to be building a career for herself too. This seems more like a temporary wobble re accommodation that's all.

That's a bit of mad fortune telling @Primrose86

I think you're extrapolating from your personal situation into suggesting that any young woman needs to be having a baby as early as possible just in case they struggle later in life.

Totally. As i said earlier, i had unprotected sex with my dh from age 22 to 32 and didnt get pregnant. When i finally did, while we had savings and a mortgage on a 2 bed flat in north london, it was a terrible time work wise. Who knows what if it is a terrible recession when Op's daughter is in her early 30s. She might be in a rental and her mum might have downsized and miles away from her. That is actually v likely given the fact uk has been low growth since 2008. For me the savings of 30k and mortgage absolutely made a difference but that is because we were fortunate to land a 2% mortgage and a 1k mortgage for 5 years meant we could save and pay off dh's student loan and the pandemic meant we were also able to save. Its not like OP's daughter is going to have that. The war, very high inflation, higher mortgage interest rates are going to make her life very hard in the next 10 years. She will likely never be in an ideal position for kids.

This too.

And just for the record we're not all desperate to be grandmothers.

I resent the idea that it's every older woman's dream to spend time providing childcare and support for young children.

We only have the OP's word for anything that gets put on here so we can only go by what they say. I find it hard to believe that someone who is freaking out would plaster on a big smiley face especially knowing it would likely not go down well with her mum and not have a conversation about how freaked out they are, what are they going to do etc.

She can become a Grandmother. That doesn't have to include housing her Grandchild. That's a parents responsibility, not a Grandmothers responsibility.

Better to have no child at all than to have a child you cannot house or provide basic necessities for, that is born into poverty only because of selfish adult decisions.

Children shouldn't exist to fulfill adult's wishes. They should only exist if the adults making them actually have something to offer them, other than poverty and misery which soon turns into resentment against the child.

If the mum doesn't want to go through it all again that's her choice. It doesn't make her cruel or callous or unloving. Living with a young couple and brand new baby is not for the faint hearted. She's allowed a voice and not to be guilt tripped.

We only have the OP’s word for this. There’s every chance her DD is absolutely freaking out and just putting a brave face on things. In fact there’s a not insignificant chance that faced with the prospect of impending motherhood she has in fact come to Mumsnet looking for support in what is quite possibly the most vulnerable time of her life. And what will she find when she gets here? An easily identifiable thread made by her DM in which countless posters proffer up termination and self imposed homelessness as solutions to deal with her wayward daughter. And won’t that just help their relationship no end.

And as for the posters euphemistically suggesting termination because it’s ‘bad timing’. Yes, it is bad timing in an economic sense, but what a lot of women my age have discovered is that if you wait until the time is right there may be no baby at all. We were all told ‘Do not have a baby until you can afford it!!’ and now everyone I know is having to do IVF. Some unsuccessfully. The OP probably thinks with a few children under her belt she’s guaranteed enough grandchildren to be picky about the timing of this one, but that’s hubris especially in this day and age. If she’s actually being offered the chance to become a grandmother now she should take it.

and what's done is done doesn't mean that everything gets to go their own way and they can have things exactly how they want. It's entitled to expect otherwise.

Sorry I do not agree. Are you really saying that as your parents get older you have no obligations to them if they have been good, nurtured you and loved you? I think that is bollocks. many of us have done so and are doing so. Even if you cannot provide the actual care directly, you will still be picking nursing homes and care packages. The idea that a parent has to do everything for the child but the child then does nothing is a bit prime mumsnet.

What's done is done, still doesn't change the fact that the poster is saying she'd rather force a young family apart, her own daughter and her granddaughter at that. But hey, they've got to be taught a lesson right?

@Netcurtainnelly If my 14 year old daughter got pregnant she would be having an abortion.

Allowing a child that young to go through with a pregnancy would be cruel to them and the child.

Don't have a baby before you can house one then. It's a consequence of having to rely on other people to provide the basics for your child.

It might not always work out exactly they way you want.

So you'd rather force a young family apart instead? Nice.

I would make it very clear, they need to find somewhere else to live. And I would be very honest and tell them why ‘Look those first few years were the hardest of my life, my youngest child is turning an adult this year and I can’t start the baby years all over again. I will help as much as I can and will be there emotionally, financially and to get stuck in, but you just can’t stay here. It’s too much.’

And whatever you do, don’t tell them about clearing the mortgage. People assume when you’re mortgage free you seem to be rich beyond your wildest dreams.

I'd offer help. It just wouldn't be the help they wanted in OP's circumstances if they showed up pregnant, excited and thinking of no one but themselves.

I'd help them look into UC to help with housing and childcare
If I could afford it, I'd consider helping with a bond/deposit for a private rental
If it was necessary, I'd also consider agreeing to be their guarantor

but they or the baby wouldn't be living with me in those circumstances.

For white British cultures maybe. Not in my culture, where elders are the responsibilty of their children too. If at all possible.

Yeah, that’s why it’s ok to have differing opinions. And I think it’s shit to not provide help to your child when you have the means. That’s my opinion.

Ooh are we playing child free bingo. <gets out dabber>

Dark ages? Expecting women (because it is always women) to shut up and ''be kind'' is very much like the dark ages to me.

Women are allowed to say no, I have raised my children. They are allowed to have their own careers and their own lives. They are also allowed to expect their adult child to be an adult and take responsibility for a choice they have made.

I'm sure I'd love the baby very much but they wouldn't be my baby and I wouldn't expect to be housing them. Especially in OP's case if they showed up to my house all excited and entitled expecting me to house them.

It's amazing that even asking the boyfriend to live with his parents is a reason to go no contact, according to some posters. That might be a compromise. But no the boyfriend must also be housed, because the OP dared to have a child!