Im not excited with announcement of the first grandchild

We don't know what they earn. I have friends who work term time only but salary is evened out across the year so they still pick up a wage outside of term time (plus then additional work over that period if they want it). Being self employed doesn't mean they are below threshold for uc. The only way for them to know is to speak to a citizens advice service or benefits calculator as I mentioned. My point is just that you cannot assume that help is going to be there for them, especially to a point where rent will be affordable on a decent property.

It's not about holding other people responsible, it's about looking at the fact someone could have helped but decided to let you flounder instead. Is that someone you're then going to go out of your way to help the next time they need it? Probably not realistically. And this is how relationships then suffer.

One of them works term time only and the other one has recently become self employed. UC isn't just for those who are out of work, it is also for those who are on lower wages which does seem to apply to them.

If I was struggling financially due to a decision I had made, I don't know why I'd hold anyone else but myself responsible. Especially if I knew they were already under financial pressure themselves.

Op has said she's not in a position to help with a deposit so that's a non starter.

Since both parents in this equation are working there's no reason to think they're entitled to universal credit so unsure why you think that's required. By all means they should do a run through on an entitlement calculator to check but that's not a given that any government help would be forthcoming outside of child benefit.

If I was under financial pressure and working with a goal to early retirement I would not be signing up to be a guarantor for a couple if they aren't going to be able to afford the rent while my dd is on maternity leave as op could be left covering that putting her under more pressure. Again they will need to do the maths on what's realistic and affordable.

So I'm not sure your help is the help you think it is which is why they are likely to feel left to struggle it out on their own if op changes her mind on them moving in (as is her right). Rightly or wrongly I think if I had a parent who was happy to watch me struggle financially when they had the means to help but chose not to I'd feel very hurt because I'm not a robot. And similarly I'm not sure I'd be able to watch my child in that position and not expect them to have any feelings about it.

If you were struggling with something and you had a close friend who could help you but decided not to and just opted to watch you struggle instead would you class them as a friend? I wouldn't ask anything of them but I wouldn't see them as a friend either.

There is a middle ground. For me, it would be helping them with Universal Credit, helping them to find a rental property and paying bond/deposit as well as offering to be a guarantor if it was necessary.

But they wouldn't be living in my house with a baby. If that would negatively affect our relationship just because it isn't exactly what they wanted, I'd be disappointed at their entitlement.

I would also say that people do this all the time. I have a number of friends who did this because they had sold their home to be in a better position to buy in a fast moving market, and others who did this because they wanted to build a home and were waiting on planning permission to go through. All had babies and expanded their family while living with parents and all are very close and involved as a wider family unit. Expectation also being that they will in turn care for their parents when the time comes and it's just what you do as a family to better yourselves.

I just think it's interesting that the perspective on this is so very different when the parents to be involved aren't well off when actually this is a really common thing to do in order to get into a better financial position long term in a difficult housing market.

But that at least is the working plan, not your madevup scenario of them staying forever while popping out baby after baby.

I completely agree that taking this into your home is a big step and i think it's actually really good in many ways that op is being open about it because she's not going into it blindly.

But there is a middle ground here between refusing to help whatsoever and washing her hands of them so to speak, and being a doormat. And all that really looks like is a very clear conversation about expectations and boundaries which everyone will need to live by.

Obviously noone can say for sure what it'll mean long term, but it's also not easy for a young family to be living with parents. That can be really tough on a relationship as well so I think it's reasonable to expect they will want to move out into their own space as soon as they can. They just need to be very realistic about the timescale and that means sitting down together and doing the maths and setting a goal for that as a move out date. Plus boundaries of what support op and her husband are/ are not prepared to take on and exactly what that looks like. As well as privacy in the home and housework and all the rest.

Ultimately its op and her dhs home so of course they can decline if they want to. But it would be naieve to think that won't affect the relationship they have with their dd if they do.

Sounds like hell for you, so don't let it happen.

It's also an assumption to believe that after 6 months, they will 100% move out with a baby to pay for now just because they say they will.

That's a lot of assumptions, the plan is temporary, they're hardly going to stay forever now are they, especially seeing as grandma seem frosty about the whole thing.

No one can guarantee it is temporary and that is part of the issue.

They may not save as much as expected, especially now with a baby to pay for
They may not be in a rush to leave and dig their heels in
They may not look for places as they will be nice and comfortable with a free extra pair of hands
They might even decide to have another baby

Rolling over and doing whatever they want you to do isn't turning your back on your adult child. You are allowed to say no, that won't work for me now.

😂😂😂

They were moving in for 6 months, so they have 3 months before the baby is born?
If not, this was a premeditated attack on your humbleness which needs to be called out and your initial offer revoked. You have raised your children.

If you didn’t want to become a grandmother then why on earth, to parrot some of the posters here, didn’t you use contraception?

How is this child going to suffer? Maybe spending their first few months house sharing with grandma?! Make an appointment at the abortion clinic quick, how could you condone any child suffering such a miserable start in life.

I understand that, what I can't understand is how you could turn your back on your child in thus situation especially when it's a temporary arrangement

Some posters here are suggesting termination, so in that case no, she wouldn’t become a grandmother and would very much be relying on future ‘better timed’ grandchildren.

In terms of providing housing, my own grandmother wasn’t as supportive as she could have been to my mother when I was little and my mother needed help. It coloured my relationship with her for the entirety of her life and not in a good way. If that’s path OP wants to take then it’s her choice but it comes with a cost.

Either way, it does change things because the agreement didn't include a baby.

The living arrangements were made back in December so could well have been before pregnancy, or before pregnancy was known.

You cannot force a 14 year old to terminate legally, and it’s pretty questionable ethically too

No contraception is 100% foolproof though. Not everyone (myself included) is able to tolerate hormonal birth control. My sister was well within her dates with a contraceptive implant when she fell pregnant. Shit happens even when people use contraception properly. And where exactly does it say that ops dgc will suffer? If they have two loving, safe and motivated parents then there is no reason to suggest they will suffer or live in poverty. Technically they could house their child, but they are choosing to live with op in order to save to secure better, longer term housing nearer to their support network which is financially sensible.

You seem to have a very black and white view of things but the reality is there is no one straight path to success here. Life is not that clear cut.

Which is fine because circumstances have changed, especially if they knew about the pregnancy and didn't bother to tell her until she had already agreed to them living with her.

Also it isnt mad fortune telling. Are uk median incomes likely to increase? No.
Is there war in the middle east disrupting oil supplies pushing up inflation and which looks likely to be a protracted vietnam style conflict and where oil facilities have been damaged and will take years to repair? Yes.
Is this young couple on a high earning career path? No. Is there bank of mum and dad? No

All of this points to a lower than average likelihood of home ownership, higher than average spending on rent that will mean lower than average disposable income, squeezed finances for the foreseeable future..

I am 33 and even i only had the means for 1 child as my husband works in finance and is a 4th generation londoner (rent free living for uni and while in first job) as well as 2% mortgage rates. We saved 60k in 3 years even with employment gaps. All my other friends had bank of mum and dad. Husband had a vasectomy even though we struggled with fertility because we both know that there is no way we can afford a second child in the next 10 years in this economy.

This couple has a very high chance of never being in a good position to have a child in fact fhey are in a better position now than they would ever be..in 10 years time, grandma is likely to be far more resistant to 32 year olds moving in, rent would be more expensive and who knows what would happen to public services with a reform government.

Ah so it ok for all those other babiesto be born into relative poverty but a British baby doesn't deserve to be born unless the parents own their own home? Ok got it.
Besides the fact that this couple already had somewhere else lined up to live when their tenancy ended, grandma just doesn't want the baby in tow, she had already agreed to the couple.
Tenancies can and do end quite abruptly in a lot of cases, I can't imagine anyone deciding to kill the baby that they seem excited about over such a hopefully temporary blip, does human life really have such little value these days? So easily disposable?

If my parent reacted that way to me being pregnant in a loving relationship at 21 (presumably a surprise pregnancy to me as well) I would be devastated and the relationship would most likely never recover. That's unforgivable in my book.

"This couple are not decent parents"

Are you suggesting that only people who plan babies and who are financially well off can be 'decent parents' ? What a nonsense.

For many young parents having a baby is the absolute making of them. My sister had hers at 17 and lived with my mum who at the time was understandably gutted given her age and that her relationship had broken down. My sister went on to put herself through multiple degrees, has an excellent job and has raised all of her children so well. My neice has a special bond with her granny because they lived together even though my sister did all the labour of parenting while finishing school. She's an excellent parent. My mum is not remotely hands on and took the whole thing very badly so it literally was a roof over their heads for the first year.

Ops dd is in a different situation, in a relationship, an adult, in employment, with plans for the future. To say she and her partner can't be decent parents is really unfair.

Op I understand why you're upset and why this feels very different to what you'd envisioned when you agreed to them moving in. And it's hard because you agreed without really knowing what you were agreeing to (even though they also may not have known at that point). I also think that boundaries will be the way forward. State in advance what you're prepared to do and then you will need to lean into that. What you don't want in particular is to create a scenario where mum and you become the defaults while dad is never pushed to build his confidence and then leaves it to her when they do eventually move out. I think if they can save as hard as possible while living with you with the view to moving out before baby arrives is probably the best option. When is she due?

I understand you might not be in a position to help them with a deposit but would you be able to cope without their input on utilities and hold that money for them and give it to them when they move out as a way to help get them out? Perhaps easier than a lump sum now but obviously that really depends on your circumstances.