AIBU to consider an outdoor primary over our local school?

I wouldn't personally...

I have a bit of experience of these "outdoor nurseries" and "outdoor primaries", and in my experience, there's very valid reasons why the state sector hasn't got on board with them. They often have high staff turnover, and are often owned/run by obsessive control freaks, who drive staff away.

I think these settings are all well and good for nursery and lower primary, but are totally mis-matched for the older children, who simply don't get the curriculum they need, and are hugely under-prepared for secondary school, both academically and in terms of maturity.

You need to shop around for your 4 year old, AND your future 11 year old.

This is not what the OP is talking about tho (tho at risk of being a negative Nellie I rather hope it is the reality). OP says all classes, all learning, is outdoors. Plenty of us here are all for outdoor learning, especially in early years. But a lot of us think it is somewhat impractical as your post illustrates.

Having taught in one of the countries often mentioned on threads like this I've never yet come across one that was entirely outside all day everyday with no indoor classrooms. I have however come across lots of schools where they have a good mix between indoor and outdoor learning like many in the UK both state and private.

I live in a Scandinavian country and I am familiar with this concept and have seen it in action (without going into too much detail). The kids learn in different ways, a lot more hands on. They aren't doing the same school work that they would do inside the classroom, but sitting in a forest. They also aren't outside 100% of the time, they have classes indoors too and if the weather is too bad to be outside, then they don't go out. But they do have a high tolerance for being outside, I suspect more than some of the posters on MN consider acceptable. On the whole, I have heard very little negative about the schools. The kids seem resourceful, creative and resilient. It is a good option to consider.

You obviously know nothing about forestry schools. Your comment was so dramatical it made me laugh out loud.

I would go and have a look at the outdoor school, both for reception/y1 and for older ones. I wouldn’t worry too much about transitioning back into a more conventional school at whatever age you think is appropriate. But I would want to make sure that they are being well cared for, in all weathers, that they are enabling good learning, and that the children are developing into well-rounded, resilient people.

Read it again.

This is my second comment. I think in your heart you know this is the best option for your son. I think they are brilliant schools and with the ways schools are being run at the moment it might be your best option. Good luck in whatever you choose but remember the children in Sweden do very well. Ignore the negative Nellie’s.

My grandson went to a forestry pre school he is so much hardier than his brother who didn’t ( both have cystic fibroses) being outdoors gives them higher D3 levers and strong bone density. They now both go to a small private school 10 to a class. The school does a lot of outdoor activities and they grow veg etc. if there had been an outdoor junior school in my area I would have jumped at the chance to send them there.

That's a very interesting post from @tranquillsea which actually shows experience of this.

Those that say – oh but there is shelter, there are classes indoors – well then it’s not school that is always and fully outdoors is it? And in fact if a number of lessons are actually indoors, especially with the older DC, it might not be so very different from a mainstream primary that has an early years focus on outdoor/forest school. There are lots of those – I know bc when I googled this, the first things that came up were lots of primary schools in my area.

The thing that gets me is the inflexibility – if indeed the message is genuinely "all lessons are outdoors". The older I get, the more I realise that being flexible and adaptable and practical is what will get you somewhere.

Collect twigs and learn your number bonds in the sun (or the wind, or the rain)? Great! Sit in a circle outside for storytime? Love it! Have IT lessons or guided reading or a writing task outside in the driving rain? Errrrm…maybe not?

There needs to be flex. There always needs to be flex. I think that's what a lot of PPs here are saying. I would actually be really concerned if a school claimed that all learning right the way up to year 6 took place outside, not in a room or a shelter but outside.

I taught mainstream secondary and even then, on a lovely day, or in certain circumstances, we would have lessons outside. No, not often, but when it was a good idea, when it was a practical solution. We sat in a circle and traded German vocab. I took my small lower-set class out to see the animals by my classroom when we had a tricky last period and we learned the names in French and made up sentences.

I couldn’t imagine anything worse. It’s rained for about 5 months where I am and bloody windy.
People are more outdoorsy than me, even in a warm rain suit. How do you write or draw in the pouring rain? Or stop the paper getting wet or even hold a pen/pencil with thick gloves on?

Go for it op. He's still really young and state primary gets so formal way too quickly imo. You can always change later on when he's older if you need too.

I would love to see more with regards to how this actually works but it sounds like it would have quite a restrictive curriculum if it just focused on outdoors experiences.

I am a massive fan of forest school and continuous provision throughout key stage one but a fully outdoor school sounds very limiting.

I don't think that's true at all about screens in primaries. At computing training, it's clear many schools still share trolleys of Chromebooks/iPads as classes are allocated a 45 minute session per week. We're much better resourced and still only tend to use them 2 days out of 5, never more than 3 days, and generally for no more than about 20 minutes in a day (this is KS2, KS1 do far less). This is very much something you could ask a school about. Some schools do have an iPad per child but even then that doesn't mean they're constantly using them.

Jesus that sounds beyond miserable.

Would you want to be permanently outdoors all year round??? I bet not.

It's not just the awful winter weather to consider. If you're down South, temperatures in the summer can easily reach 34/35° for long stretches. I'd want to know that there were suitable areas for shade in that sort of midday heat.

My DCs are beyond school age now, but I don't think it's something I would have considered for mine. I think I'd prefer the more usual mix of indoor and outdoor provision. Also, I'm probably not 'alternative' enough.
Perhaps try it for the early years stage and take stock towards the end of each year?

My son went to a forest primary. He lasted a year and a half there and it was ultimately a very negative experience. It's just not possible to come close to matching the curriculum in those settings. Learning is patchwork and the schools don't want to admit it, so there ends up being a push to have the children to produce work that they have no understanding of, so that there is something to point at to show learning. It's ultimately much worse for the kids than anything regular schools get criticised for.

The outdoor in all weather thing is genuinely awful too. The weather in this part of the world is too bad. It's often far too wet for even the best of rain gear, and it's just miserable to be outside in driving rain, that bit by bit seeps into your clothes. And then you have to somehow get all that gear dried out by the next day, which isn't possible, so you inevitably end up dressing in damp gear some mornings. Uncomfortable from minute one.

And the absolute worst part is, that very young children can't properly articulate how horrible it is. The schools play up the good moments, taking photos (if allowed) for the parents when everything is great, telling the children over and over what a great time they are having. The parents are convinced the kids are having a great time. They see the picture, hear their kids repeating what they've been told about the great time. And then don't understand when their child does manage to tell them how they feel as they are getting mixed messages. I used to think my son was being dramatic, or precious about a bad day, because he'd also tell me it was great. In his second year I spent a lot of time in the school myself and we were gone within a few months. I saw kids have a miserable time, and then be coached to say it was lovely actually and repeat it to their parents at the end of the day.

Do they get a hot meal at lunchtime and if so, where does it come from?
How many children in total and how long do most of them stay?
Where do they have assemblies?
Where do they perform their little concerts and shows (Nativity, etc) which are such an important part of primary schools?

I'd be asking you to think more long term. Most 4/5 year olds are going to be happier playing outdoors and I can see the genuine benefits for it. My KS1 DC would much rather be outside and my eldest DC was exactly the same in KS1.
My DC go to schools that are a considerable distance from where we live, one of the key deciding factors was how much outside provision and outdoor learning the school has with small intake classes. But it's still a mainstream primary school.

However does this forest school follow the national curriculum? How on earth are they teaching things like Phonics/Maths/English/PHSE outside? Imagine being 8 years old, sat outside in -2 with everything frozen trying to write an English Report, my hands certainly don't work the best in the cold. Even in a heated pod or something it's not going to be comfortable with several layers on. What's the ratio for staff? How will your child cope when they get to the end of KS2 and suddenly have to sit indoors in a classroom, producing written work with a standard school uniform on? Because I can't see there being even private schools with this set up for KS3/4/5.

We aren't in a Scandinavian country so although it may work there, our education system is totally different and there isn't enough alternative settings for it to be a viable solution all the way through to year 11.

Exactly, you wouldn’t have a Paw Patrol birthday party for a ten year old because they liked it at two. You definitely need to look at the older children and what they are doing on a day to day basis.

I’d also want to know how long they have been running and whether it’s financially stable.

I am an early years teacher and I sent my dc to a three for entry school because I know that the more staff that there are, the less pressure they are under.

Outdoor nurseries/schools have shelter. If it’s pissing rain they won’t be sitting writing on wet paper 🙄 Have they been inspected at all and can you see attainment results etc.? As if those are as they should be then they are clearly achieving the curriculum.

Yes I know that, hence why I said ‘I wouldn’t write off a forest school for a child who is thriving at a forest nursery’.

It sounds lovely. Obviously you could change it down the line but this is setting you up on quite an ‘alternative’ path for his education.

Everyone I met in forest school nursery all thought their children had the beginnings of SEN and a few I still know ended up on a private Montessori or similar ‘alternative’ private school.

Hi OP like others have said I can see how this would appeal at this age but I'm not sure how suitable it would be as they got older (thinking about my own experience).

Have you looked into other schools in your area with smaller class sizes? Our local village school has approx 18 children per class and often this includes children from out of catchment if there is space. There are approximately 100 pupils in the school. They also do plenty outdoor learning. Good luck 🍀

But how would it work in the older years? If it rained all day how would you write? How would you read? How would you use technology?

I agree that concerns about falling trees are not a major issue, and dc can be wrapped up warm to be outside.