Should a vaccination programme be roll out nationwide for Meningitis B for teens/young adults

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/meningococcal-disease-laboratory-confirmed-cases-in-england-2023-to-2024/invasive-meningococcal-disease-in-england-annual-laboratory-confirmed-reports-for-epidemiological-year-2023-to-2024

This has a lot of data.. 2023/24 seemed to have uncharacteristically low case fatality rate of 3% when other years are 8 and 10% but the number of cases of MenB has been between 300 and 600 for quite some time.

There has been a lot of misleading reporting.

Yes, MenB has been increasing since 2020 but that was because of COVID.. no one was interacting! 2023/25 and 24/25 were back to pre covid levels.

There is much more I could say about the reporting, not least the article that reported cases and deaths and had to retract.

MenB is a serious and devastating illness and should be taken seriously. This outbreak is unusual due to the number of cases .. but it is also unusual due to the amount of press coverage it has received.

The MenB vaccine has only been available since 2015, before that there were no vaccines for this strain. There are up to 100 sub strains and vaccine effectiveness is between 60 and 70%, in teens, it wanes after 18 months to 2 years and there is no herd immunity effect because it does not kill the bacteria that is present in the nasal passages of at least 10% of the population at any one time.

Again.. it is a serious disease and the vaccine policy should be reviewed, but a vaccine rollout may not be the answer everyone hopes it might be.

I never mentioned "emotions". I was simply pointing out that comments suggesting "pensioners" all get various vaccines is incorrect. Though quite why they decided to roll out shingles such that younger pensioners got it before older ones is beyond me.

Definitely has had all the others and Meningitis B 1st dose booked in privately on Tuesday.

Younger children in school are being vaccinated for men acwy. It is babies vaccinated for men b
If she's missed her men acwy (or hpv, booster or mmr) she can catch up with her gp for free. Men acwy is only until 25yrs
If its men b then you need to pay privately and it will be available once the media fuss has calmed down

Yes, they need to be honest that better more complete vaccine coverage is available than the standard programme, so people can make the choice. Ideally any fee would go to the NHS not to private providers, a top up as you say, but the NHS might then be accused of deliberately keeping money-making vaccine options out of the normal programme.

Perhaps start by making sure every young person’s vaccination records are correct and showing on the NHS app. My DC tried to check her records this week and was fobbed off and given wrong information. How the heck are the health authorities providing data about vaccinations if the GPs don’t have it correct on their records. Many believed the MenACWY vaccine covered all meningitis, so making sure that parents and young people are aware of the Men B vaccine is also a start.

@slantingsunbeams I'm sure many of us would have been happy to pay a subsidized fee for it

It's the fact.studrnts and parents thuoght their dc were covered and safe and they aren't

I paid to privately vaccinate my teenagers when they were much younger as they’d just missed the cut off.

Better safe than sorry I think. She was aware that younger children are now being vaccinated in school. Also that friends are all coming back from uni to our home town increasing the risk of spread. Plus probably some media fear mongering too. Her uni have put up posters of the symptoms of Meningitis B in colleges and hall this week too.

Knee jerk reactions such as vaccination right now are so they being seen to be doing something. Longer term public health officials will be looking at whether including it is useful, when optimal timinf would be (it’s not effective for very long apparently). They will also be monitoring how long immunity is lasting in those given it as babies. This is my friend’s job as a public health specialist, and it’s a lot more complicated than simply vaccinating 14 year olds, she’s been commenting on things this week

They should make it available for parents to buy in 16+ and university students. I'd happily pay for foster son to have such a jab to keep him safe.

Interesting to know her thought process behind the change, do you know why?

no due to the cost vs return on investment

I wanted DD to have the Meningitis B vaccine before she left for uni in October. She said no and I had to respect her wishes. Vaccinated fully otherwise. I asked again last week as she's home for Easter from today. Not refusing now.

The NHS/JCVI can't sit there thinking only about individual benefits, by comparing vaccine side-effect risks against the risks of illness.

Even if a vaccine is considered as safe as any vaccine can be, and even if the disease would be harmful and well worth avoiding, they're still forced to look at the nationwide costs of deaths and/or hospitalisations it would prevent, to see if it's worth giving out.

If vaccinating everyone doesn't prevent enough deaths and hospital costs, then however catastrophic the illness might be for a few unlucky people, it can't be offered as a free vaccine.

The problem isn't that we have that unavoidable rationing, so much as people not realising that's how it works, and interpreting the NHS not giving a particular vaccine to a particular age group as meaning that age group doesn't need it at all, or even that it's actively not safe for them to have it.

The covid vaccine for middle aged people falls into this category too - so many people think not being offered the vaccine now must mean either that we don't need it (i.e. that covid is totally fine now for middle-aged people), or that the vaccine is riskier than the illness. In reality neither of those things are true, it's just cost (and only short-term costs at that - they don't even take into account the costs of increased rates of cardiovascular disease after covid).

I think we need the government and NHS to be less squeamish about saying "These are the routine childhood vaccinations, but there are others we consider safe but that we can't afford to provide for free". Yes it would lead to pressure to add those to the national programme, but the cat's already out of the bag for meningitis B, so they might as well be honest in general in the future.

Not enough vaccines. Not enough money. The youngsters affected can get the vaccines. 👍

Where are you getting this from? I’m genuinely interested if you work in the field? My years of experience is that those objecting for reasons such as blood/tissue contamination are minuscule in number compared with the ill-informed/conspiracy theorists/idealogues.

The age for eligibility for the shingles vaccine is being lowered. There are not enough resources to give everyone it who is now age eligible in the one year - millions of people are technically due it but there is a finite number of staff.

Therefore the decision was made to roll it out in stages. So people who were 65, 66, 67 on September 1st 2025 are offered it this year whereas 68 and 69 year olds (on Sept 1st 2025) will get it on the year of their 70th birthday.

It’s a pragmatic solution to a delivery/numbers issue but yeah, difficult for people to get their heads around. I’ve had couples at the clinic with a few days difference in age with one getting it and one not.

Covid is now for 75+ unless your immune system is compromised and pneumococcal is 65+, again unless you have certain health conditions.

I don’t think people realise (and why would they if they were not in the field) just how complex and multifaceted the immunisation programmes in the UK are. Decisions must be evidence based and must do the greatest good for the greatest number. Emotions don’t come into it.

they will often refuse if human blood or other tissue has been used in making of vaccine.
I agree it's not often rational.

@AStonedRose not around the vaccines no

No it’s not. And saying they are “not halal” doesn’t make sense.

The child nasal flu vaccine contains a tiny amount of pork gelatine as a stabiliser but the Muslim Council of GB have endorsed its use as it is much more effective in children thereby protecting communities more. But some of the more dogmatic Muslims still refuse it for their DC. Some will consent to the flu injection which has no trace of pork but often the child will refuse to be vaccinated.

Almost all vaccines which contain pork gelatine have an alternative free from pork gelatine. This is for religious and dietary preferences (ie vegans).

The child’s consent form, that is distributed via their school, that the parent signs, states if the vaccine contains pork and what the alternative is if this is the case (sometimes less effective). As often as not, the form comes back unsigned so we have to phone the parents.

For example, the HPV vaccine Gardasil 9 does not contain pork. I’ve spent many an hour on the translation line to the fathers (usually the father rather than the mother) of DD’s due the HPV vaccine, explaining this, only to get a curt “no” at the end of the conversation. It’s extremely frustrating.

I’m not sure if it is a mistrust of the health system generally, or vaccines specifically, but there is a tendency for Muslim parents, particularly those in poorer areas, not to fully engage with the childhood immunisation programme. Explaining there is no pork material in the vaccine in my (and my colleagues) experience makes little difference.

67, almost 68 year old pensioner here. I'm not allowed the shingles vaccine until after I'm 70, was not allowed Covid this year but was allowed pneumonia.

It's because some vaccines aren't halal.