All men should be aware of this

You didn’t say he kept looking back at you, you said he looked back once and then opened his backpack

Lol I’m not mistaken you’re mistaken

op wants men to understand that in remote places, some women find them intimidating. That was her point. Why are you arguing with that?

Last point.

Despite my above posts, I feel some sympathy for the man, too, esp. in relation to the comment about "decent men". He could have been entirely decent, and behaving in an entirely decent way!

But the OP, who doesn't usually feel uneasy, did on this occasion.

So, reading about it at many removes, we can choose either to give the OP the benefit of the doubt, or the man - or a balanced response that addresses both.

And given that we know that only one of the two (of the OP and man) is upset and present and reading, while other wasn't upset and probably won't be present and reading, the number and tone of "Stupid woman / poor men!" posts feels quite striking.

I totally get that people are choosing to focus on the ethics of the wider point being made - and agree that it does feel unjust to assume that this man, and by extension other men we know and love who we can imagine behaving exactly this way, isn't "decent".

But the way it's being said seems somehow significant.

What comes across is that, for many posters, everything that could lead a woman to post this way (distressing personal experiences / the realities of living in a female body etc.) is of far less concern than the offence her interior experience and words describing this may cause men.

And that actually proves the point she's making.

It shows there is a need for greater awareness of and respect for the female experience.

I'm so confused. I agree that men should be aware of how they can make women feel, my husband always crosses to the other side of the road if walking behind a woman on her own, for example, so it doesn't seem like he's following her. But this man just stopped to get something out of his bag? Presumably he looked behind him first to make sure he wouldn't be in anyone's way by stopping? Agree in principal but doesn't really understand your specific issue here

No, you’re mistaken. I don’t give a fuck whether it offends this man or not. The OP is telling us that men should learn from this particular man’s ‘behaviour’. I am asking her how he would do so based on the fact that nothing he did exhibited anything ‘out of the ordinary’. I’ve asked what he could have changed about his ‘behaviour’.

What could this man have done any differently?

I’m a woman. I’ve been frightened, I have been followed on more than one occasion but if you want good men to learn and understand what they could do to minimise feelings of unease in women when they are exhibiting nothing untoward then I will dismiss it because she’s offering nothing. What did she want him to do when, as per her OP she’s stating ‘all men should be aware of this’!

@Shessweetbutapsycho yes men should be aware that if they are in an isolated setting with a lone female present, they should take steps to try and increase her sense of safety.

And what, in this case, should those steps have been?

Bear in mind that, whatever you say he should have done, every single woman on here would need to agree that it would have been reassuring, and absolutely none must think that is would have made them feel less safe.

It may have been entirely innocent. There may have been nothing to concern OP here at all - odds on there wasn't.

But what of that? Women should still listen to their guts. If they're wrong then no one is harmed as a result. Whereas if they're not wrong ...

It's a straight assessment of benefits vs. risks.

OP he didn't do anything, did he? You were feeling anxious and that's why you reacted with panic/anxiety about the guy opening his backpack. That's on you, I'm afraid. Nothing you've described suggests he did anything to intimate, scare, harass you or anything else.

Oh, stop it. What is it with these women who constantly cajole other women to ignore their instincts? What's in it for you?

I confess I couldn't immediately see the issue, either, which is why I continued reading the thread. The post you've quoted answered the questions I had. One was: why change direction and walk behind a man who has already given you bad vibes, and secondly, if this guy's behaviour didn't look particularly odd, why the pause?

Sometimes they don't need to do anything odd to give rise to that uncomfortable feeling. It should never be ignored. And changing direction struck me as unwise, but other than trying to 'get back to civilization' is quite difficult to postulate on what else OP could have done in that particular situation.

This one is a definite contender for Pascal's wager. If you listen to your instincts and you're wrong, no harm done other than giving yourself a few bad moments.

If you ignore them odds on you'll be fine, but there is always the chance that you were right. And if so, the possible consequences don't bear thinking about.

'Listen to your gut and act on what it tells you' is the bet you can't lose, and persuading women to ignore this is the worst possible advice. I don't know what made OP uneasy. She does.

That's enough.

What was he supposed to do? He walked past a woman, was that wrong? He saw the woman was behind him and stopped so she could pass by (because he was wondering why the hell she was following him) was that wrong?
No neither of those things are wrong.
I don't know what else he was supposed to do really.
Maybe we should just have separate times when men and women can go out of the house, doesn't seem to be any other solution.

On the face of it, this seems like a bit of an overreaction; you waited til he was past you then turned and followed him, he likely looked behind himself to make sure he wasn’t stopping directly in someone’s path and was probably getting something perfectly innocent out of his bag. Probably.
BUT having said all that, gut instinct is powerful and shouldn’t be ignored. You know how he made you feel, and that’s that.

Yes thank you for explaining this so eloquently 👏 this is pretty much my point!

Women who don’t understand why OP was freaked are presumably lucky enough to never have had cause to be wary.

I love my husband and sons, they are good men and not on curfew! None of us would want our daughter to be walking somewhere alone because so many men are creeps. Good men understand how women feel and take steps to avoid intimidating them.

That is your right and I agree with it completely.

i just don’t understand why this guy is so offended about the semantics a traumatised woman used when describing a feminist experience?! Like we get it. You’re outraged on his behalf. He was a nice guy. When we’re upset we say things. But why dismiss her whole argument? That annoys me

it’s called Mumsnet and this is a post about feminism.

We get it. You love men; you think they’re great. You’re here to defend their honour.

Next idea please.

This isn’t a board ‘for women’, it’s a board for ‘parents’ and it isn’t the ‘feminism’ board it’s ‘aibu’.

I’m a woman, I find the OPs demand for men to learn from this as vague at best and due to the fact I am a feminist, on the AIBU board, I reserve the right to disagree with OP and in this case, believe she’s being unreasonable.

You turned a followed him, you probably made him nervous. A man that is no threat to a woman would not even think about his behaviour as it would not enter his mind. Why didn’t you keep walking the other way? Why didn’t you wait for him to get out of sight? I think you were more of a danger to him with your innuendos.

It's a board for parents (and non parents too tbf according to the owners) and this isn't the feminism board.

I'm also not offended by her feelings I just disagree with the criticisms of the man in the scenario which had prompted a wider discussion.

If this was a thread about driving and a poster posited that any driver who did X in a certain scenario was in the wrong and it was completely unclear as to why they believed X was wrong and what they should have done in the alternative there would be no issue in calling out the fact that while they might have felt unsafe in the moment, objectively their criticism of the driver is unreasonable

Ah, gotcha. And have read a few of your other posts. Yep, exactly.

It's really interesting, this heated defence of a man who likely just continued his pleasant walk utterly oblivious to it all... at the potential expense of a woman who shared a moment of vulnerability and is distressed by PPs' dismissal and ridicule of it.

Btw, in trying to get PPs to see my point, I've posited that maybe her response was extreme/irrational etc....

...But actually, I get it and trust her, too.

I've had experiences with men where if I'd tried to describe it, I'd have sounded pathetically paranoid, but I sensed something probably wasn't right. And like the OP, a regular independent walker in isolated woods, I'm pretty damn confident and independent.

I find it upsetting to think that, for example, if I were to share the two times I've felt intimidated in lifts - intimidated enough to avoid using them with lone males ever since - it could be reduced to, "So men can't use lifts?" "So you support segregated spaces?" "So man can't ever look at you?" By women!

It would be bloody offensive, showing a total disregard for me, my character and my judgement. And the impact on me of recognising a valid risk.

The awful fact is, for the OP in that lonely wooded area, for me in the lift, if the man we were with chose to attack us, he could, and we could do nothing to stop him. In that context, and the context of the stats about VAWG, it's not irrational to trust your instincts. After all, what else do we have, until the moment it all goes wrong and is too late?

ETA: I sometimes think some of what's behind the disproportionate anger at posts like the OP's is a reluctance to accept this unpleasant reality.

Youre making out like her feelings about a situation completely unreasonable because you’re offended on behalf of a man who a. Doesn’t care and b. Wasn’t harmed.
on a board for mums about feminism.
why are you here??

I've had this inexplicable feeling a few times, usually if a lone man is walking in the same direction as me but behind me, I'll sometimes turn and walk the other way, most likely perfectly innocent, but if I'm getting the heeby jeebies I'm not going to continue walking just for the damn principle of it.

What you did was completely batshit though! You walked past him, then turned round to follow him.. That is really unusual behaviour from a stranger (male or female), and in his shoes I would have made an excuse for you to pass by me too (stop suddenly look for something I need etc) rather than have to keep walking with you suddenly following me.

He did the best thing he could in the circumstances, which was pretend to be doing something, rather than stop and wait for you to go past him.

You were the one acting weird and suspicious IMO.

Can't even go for a walk on a board for men and women without being told to modify your behavior these days

OP, come on. It was the middle of the day, loads of people around, you turned and followed the guy and he stopped so you could take over.

It doesn't sound like there was any risk to you here whatsoever, and absolutely nothing the man could have done to make you feel safer except for stop existing.

You must realise you're unreasonable and overreacting. I get it, I've done it sometimes too, felt jumpy around people even though there's no obvious reason and they're doing nothing wrong. In that case, I modify my own behaviour. If the man on the path had made me nervous, I would have waited a few minutes for him to be out of sight before walking back. It's fine to act in accordance with your fears. It's not okay to expect men to cater to your fears when they are just existing near you and not doing anything at all to bother you. That's entitlement and the behaviour of a child, not a grown woman.