Please help family and rent

I wouldn't have presumed anything - I would have spoken to him and your sister about paying a reasonable rent. Surely as the owners it's your responsibility to set the rent for him if he is moving in?

Rather than simmering with resentment, you need to have a conversation with him about paying rent, or moving out.

I think even your sister is taking the piss! Yes you said yours as long as you like, but in reality these things don’t mean forever, it’s just a way of saying it’s yours till you’re back on your feet. She can’t reasonably expect to love there forever rent free and if she dord she’s totally selfish ,

now the boyfriend is moving in there’s no way I’d accept no rent especially when he’s charging to rent his own home out! Total piss take

You offered it on the basis of rent free; for a long as your sister needs it. You probably took her low income plus wanting to offer stability at a difficult time into a country when making this offer.

Your sisterw household income has changed significantly; so its right to now review the extent to which she needs a rent free space.

Your sister may however feel that you are in a fortunate position with multiple properties; and may feel that she still has need of the current set up; particularly as she might not want to move the children. A new agreement where she pays some rent is probably the best way forward.

They are taking the piss. I think you've been a bit silly letting them have it "free for as long as they need it". You should have put a deadline on that so they can save for a deposit or something. No incentive for her otherwise is there?

“We said yes - but presumed rent would follow.”

This was your mistake- it should have been agreed upfront.

Don’t let it go on any longer, ask for at least 50% (ie free for your sister to help her out, not free for him who earns decent money as well as having rental income). What a CF.

Have also just realized that he has his own flat which he rents out while living rent free in your property so is effectively making a profit on his property through yours and DH's generosity with your property. I would give them a year max on half rent to help facilitate. them buying their own property. They could sell the flat and use the equity which they likely have by now as a deposit on a place of their own
I still can't get over them allowing you to pay for your own lunch. It's often the little things that are the final straw. 💐

frankly "you need to use your words" is what needs to be said to them. SO as things are clearly on a much better footing financially it would not be out of order to write to them if you are not good at face to face and say politely that the property was let to x on the basis of her financial need when she left her partner. As things are now much improved and y has also joined her in the property that rent is now due. The full rent would be but as a family member you are happy to rent for a for the period of 1 year reviewable annually. I would also get it onto a proper lease as otherwise if you ever need them to move out it will cause issues

Could you not use the change in rental rules as a way to approach this. As you can't claim any expenses for a house you're not receiving income for you're actually paying for your sister to live there.

Does he know that your sister is paying no rent to you? Does he even know that its your place and not hers?

Wouldn't be shocked if he is paying her money for rent and she is pocketing it.

I’m not surprised your dh was angry. However you should have really adjusted the rent as he moved in. Definitely a conversation needs to be had. I think you have both been a bit too nice.

Except... OP always siad her sister could live rent free for as long as she likes. So...

Admittedly, if OP thought that her sister was goign to get on her feet and start payin rent, she may already be thinking her sister is taking the piss, even without the boyfriend moving in, but that's not what has been mentioned on this thread.

And for the record, I 100% with OP's DH that at the very least, you should never have to pay for a meal or a drink when you are out with them, ever again!

Give them notice. That man has no pride. Cheeky fuckers.

You've done a really lovely thing for your sister and removed a burden from her shoulders when she needed it most, but perhaps if your husband is beginning to feel resentment it is time to reassess the situation.

I would just be mindful that from your sister's perspective, your situation hasn't actually changed. Her partner being there doesn't mean you're worse off. You weren't getting any money before and you're not getting any money now, so she may not really see why there is a problem and why her new happiness with her partner needs to change her current arrangement.

I'm not saying that I fully agree with that view point, just that if she is resistant to the change, it might not be disrespect, just a different perspective.

Well, your piss-taking sister and her cocklodger boyfriend are now causing issues between you and your husband. So I guess it's finally come to the bit.

Best of luck with the talk this alvo. Don't let them emotionally blackmail you. Be strong! Lie back and think of the market.

Perfect time to restructure then. You’re doing it across all your properties. Nothing personal but it needs to start paying.

I would put a time limit on the new arrangement ...a year/two years? On half rent they could save up to buy their own property. Helping them to do that through cheap rent would be an amazing thing to do. Helping your sister to become financially independent and take full responsibility would see a really positive end to all the help you've given her. In any event I would be careful this time not to make the half rent offer open ended.

YANBU.

You and your DH need to ASK. Use your words. Your sister's situation has changed. It's now time to pay market rent.

I think if op goes that route the partner would just move out and then sister expect her rent free house again. Too much emphasis on it being free for sister.

Yes, you did need to tell them that they needed to pay rent once he moved in if that's what you wanted. If everyone is so decent then that shouldn't be a problem.

Yes, the mistake you made was to make assumptions at the point at which he moved in.

When you speak wiht her, I would frame it as such. Something like,

"When you moved in we wanted to help you after a difficult situation. And that still stands. But when you asked if Jack could move in, we, perhaps stupidly, assumed that there would be an understanding that the rent-free arrangement to help YOU didn't also apply to him. I'm sorry I didn't make that clear at the time or discuss it with you.
However, while we are still happy to help you out, and him as a result, we aren't comfortable with him living there rent free. Our goal was to help you at a very difficult time but not to subsidise other people long term. Can we discuss what rent might nlook like, which, of ocurse, we're happy to make at significantly lower than market value."

I think the suggestion of £1500 from nothing is actually going a bit far, even if that IS fair market value. I'd suggest you start lower and ask that it be increased routinely over the next few years. Eg £1000, rising 10-15% per year until it hits 50% of market value. Or something like that. Becuase realistically, HE is the one who will be paying this, not her so it probably needs to be linked more closely to what he would pay if he was a single man living alone?

With respect, you sound like a complete pushover (unusual for a landlord) and the pair of them, sister included, are walking all over you.

I would start charging them, and much closer to market rent. Don't you want your asset back at some point to do the actual job it's meant to do?

Even at 2k a month for 5 years you’ve been very very much more than generous. I think I’d actually be mad with dh if he did this and lost us that much money.

There should have always been even a minimum rent that slowly increased.