Please help family and rent

I agree with your husband, they should have 100% covered that bill.

Id speak to your sister and say from next month rent will now be due at X amount as she now has a partner living with her. You said she could use it rent free, not that she could move on and have a partner move in and he gets it rent free also. If she doesn't agree then Id be asking them to leave.

Agree with this.

I think I am a bit like you OP and would have assumed an offer of rent would be forthcoming since the boyfriend moved in. I know if it was me in that position, that is what I would do. The offer to rent it indefinitely was pretty obvious to help a sibling out after the split of her marriage whilst in financial turmoil. This is now not the case and it needs to be discussed.

Your poor husband.

He is paying for someone else’s cocklodger.

Cocklodger by proxy.

Time is up. They can find the £35000 a year to rent somewhere else.

You say you're cool with subsidizing your sister to the tune of over £150k over the years.

Has it occurred to you that maybe your husband isn't so cool with it now? That may be he feels like a chump because your sister is living in one of your income producing homes for free and has moved a partner in and still hasn't offered to pay anything? They won't even buy you guys a fucking lunch. That's such a a dick move.

It sounds like your sister doesn't really appreciate this free house and has become entitled. And now you get to support the live in too.

Time for a come to Jesus with your sister.

The pussyfooters are out in force today. What's wrong with the direct approach? 'I'm glad your life is so much better now and by the way, we need the house back.'

No it’s not fault - any decent person wouldn’t expect a 2.5k monthly present indefinitely. They are spongers!

@Monty35 What would HMRC be looking for if someone’s been living in a property rent-free? There’d be no taxable income that the landlord was hiding, for example.

Have you thought about selling the property to them especially as you don’t have need of an income from it.

This is not about communication. It is about money.

Without a formal tenancy in place this could become messy. You can allow someone to live in a property rent free and paperwork free but it is not good practice. HMRC would take a double look too.
And if they dispute the arrangements then the property owner may find they have to go through legals to sort.

But the sister ASKED, she didn't assume anything. She asked if he could move in and the OP okayed it with no mention that the offer did not extend to this man, so on that basis it was a fair assumption. If the offer didn't extend to this man, and if that's so bleedin obvious, then why did OP not bring it up then? If the answer is that she's bad at talking about money with her sister, which seems to be the case, then that works both ways, and this is entirely a comms issue. Hopefully it will get addressed and all be sorted today.

You say it's different for family , and that your sister is your best friend so this won't get legal.

I dare say there is a few posters wincing at this comment, who have had to have VERY difficult conversations with close family members that are taking the piss, which I'm sorry to say your sister is.

This fellah probably can't believe his luck and would have laughed out loud when he realised he didn't have to pay any rent, saving thousands every month. I bet he couldn't wait to move in and cash in on his flat.

To not even stand to lunch is a true demonstration of his character, and your sister doesn't come out this looking very good either. She knows full well they are living the life or riley off the back of your generosity. The reason she is only working 3 days a week is because she doesn't have to pay rent.

Now, this may all be fine with you because ' Family' , but don't kid yourself on that they are amazing people who will be embarrassed when you point out the ridiculousness of this situation.

You initial offer was in different circumstances. She has benefited hugely from that.

Her situation has changed. She has a partner who earns money. It is entirely unreasonable for them to continue livinh rent free in your property. You have been extremely kind so far but this cannot continue. You are also risking damaging you relationship with your sister because resentment on your side will build up and there might be a big fall out at the end of it. This is perfect time to change the set up as new situation is still, well, new.

You say her partner is nice but i would have reservations about this person if he thinks it’s ok for him to profit for the set up. I’d lose some respect for him. But perhaps he is unaware your sister is living in your property rent free?

You DH is totally justified in getting annoyed over splitting the bill btw. You are saving them thousands every month, the least they could do is to pay for that meal.

Have a chat with your DH and agree on way forward and rent you want to charge, then have a chat with your sister about the fact the situation is not the same as it was 5 years ago and you are expecting the rent and draw up a legal agreement.

Was your sister not embarrassed when her boyfriend didn't pay the whole bill?

This is an unbelievable set up. One can only assume that you are extremely wealthy and the loss of this rent over the last 5 years, hasn't had any impact on you at all.

Your sister has taken this piss and clearly feels entitled to using your property as she pleases, now seemingly finding herself a like minded CF to also take the piss. Perhaps your sister believes you will give her the house!

Your husband is clearly quite saintly to have gone along with this for 5 years. No wonder he was angry over the bill-splitting.

I agree with @Birch101 that you’ve been incredibly generous towards your sister.

But frankly, she’s taking the piss now. She’s able to only work three days a week because you and your DH are subsidizing her and now with her partner moving in and renting out his flat, they’ve really got money to spend because you’re enabling them.

After five years of your support, it’s time for her to take control of her life, isn’t it. I’d be honest and say that you and DH can’t continue with the current rent-free arrangement. From x date, you’ll be charging this well-below market rent for the property. Give them a couple of months to decide whether they want to stay in the property or make other arrangements.

Fair enough. But three months ago the OP should have put things in writing. It would of course make her formally a landlord.

Without saying he can but we need rent paid then they will both assume all is okay.

I think this is the best option OP. It’s possible your anger is misplaced. Because of the wording of the original agreement it’s possible the fact that they should now be paying rent hasn’t actually crossed her mind. Having said that, even if you didn’t mention rent when you OK’d him moving in I do think it’s a bit CF of her BF to assume he could live rent free while renting out his own property.

I would tell them straight that the circumstances have changed since the original agreement, point out the amount of rent you could potentially charge on the open market and base what you charge on that.

This - agree with you op that its time to ask

The man is taking the piss imo, he should've gone straight to your husband and offered rent 🤢🤢

Anyway hope its sorted without awkwardness

The new partner has lived there for three months, not two years.

Without the OP asking for rent, given her sister enquired if it was alright to move him in, they will assume all is well.
The OP has had years to sort this out.

I see it completely oppositely.

Paying rent would be the default position.

Why would this man presume that OP and her husband would fund his lifestyle?

Why is her sister entitled just because op is loaded?

My BIL has more money than most people could ever dream of, my husband doesn’t feel we’re entitled to any of their money or to any help from them just because they’re in a much more fortunate position. Because we’re not entitled, and neither is op’s sister. Her new partner is definitely not entitled.

Ffs, it is so unreasonable to assume that their offer extended to this man!

he’s earning £60k, RENTING OUT HIS OWN FLAT, and pocketing the profit, whilst sponging off OP.

and not even buying lunch!

This man is a freeloading cf, get him to fuck OP.

If property is your business why on earth did you not formalize this tenancy ? You will be more than aware that no paperwork is not okay. Especially where HMRC is concerned. And they have additional requirements coming in April too.
You cannot claim ignorance of the rules for landlords.
And two years after boyfriend moved in and no changes made you cannot claim you are dealing with issues quickly.
What is happening are rules requirements from April for landlords.