AIBU to think a foetus is alive before birth?

It's a weird question.

An unborn baby is classes as a parasite, it surpresses the immune system and takes what it needs from your body.

A tapeworm does similar. Is that alive?

You're either alive or you're not.

What you're asking is do unborn babies have any rights to go on living outside the body. Not whether it's alive or not.

Yes. I see you could be. A fetus is alive. What I meant was they can’t survive before a certain age.
Not sure what your point is ?

love to all those here who have lost babies
and also those who have had to terminate pregnancies for whatever reason

but

this alive/not alive debate is entirely irrelevant to the ethical dilemmas around termination, since we happliy and legally destroy life daily

its hard to imagine a woman who has gestated and given birth can claim to believe a foetus is not alive. If I was OP I would concentrate on trying to get the friend to think through exactly what she means by 'alive' and why she thinks that

good luck OP, I share your bafflement

Really?

“Alive” is an irrelevant concept.

I’m completely pro-choice and I would consider a zygote “alive”.

Something with brain activity and a beating heart is alive

What do you mean, so if a baby (like me) is born at 26 weeks and needed medical assistance to survive is that baby not a being in your opinion. Or do you mean before the stage that medical assistant couldn’t save… Like a 12 week pregnancy.

Of course they're alive. They're not independently alive as they rely on the mother for life support, but they're an alive individual human. They do interact in their way with the environment. You can feel that when they are inside you.

Of course they should, I agree but unfortunately they wouldn’t be charged for murder.

When people miscarry usually those people actually want the baby so see it as a baby. Even in the very early stages, they loose a baby and grieve the baby, toddler, child that they have just lost. People having an abortion don’t want the baby and will tell themselves it’s only cells to make themselves feel better

I was born at 26 weeks 44 years ago.. I was definitely alive.

I mean exactly what I said.

Some babies are born with severe abnormalities that mean they will die within days/weeks and will suffer in pain their entire short lives. We should be allowed (with the parents consent) to allow these babies to pass quickly and not languish in pain. Not everything is treatable and where treatment isn't available, euthanasia should be.

Care to elaborate?

They aren’t alive until they can live in my opinion. Before that, they are part of the mother’s body. So until they can survive on their own is the line for me.

Well tbh I’m not sure I understand the point of mentioning adoption?

They start to feel pain between 24 and 28 weeks gestation.

Did you rub your two brain cells together really hard to make that thought. Don’t wear yourself out.

And there it is.

Aren't most medical issues caught earlier now? And the necessity is very low? @sisterinlawunkind

Of course a foetus is alive!

So do you think the nerves become ‘activated’ at birth?

Yes, my 22 week gestation baby that parties all night doing back flips in my belly is very much alive.

As I thought.

For severe medical issues (as per the law I think ?) then yes

Up until birth? Going to the OPs question.

Yes they are alive but it means very different t things at different stages. Alive as in literally just has a heartbeat initially. Then alive but can move, alive and can perceive different sensations including pain and so on. I think it’s ok to accept a foetus is alive and also be pro choice whilst having an acceptance of that life and being of a strong enough mind to know that it is sometimes necessary to end that life at whatever stage is needed.

That said with the abortion I had I really rushed to do it as early as possible as i was actually aware I wanted to avoid doing it at a stage when it was a recognisable human and might have felt pain. I know some people aren’t able to make early choices as they may not find out till later on. I think it’s ok to acknowledge life but also accept there is a need for abortion to exist.