Anti valuers are dumb and pathetic

Was your reply actually meant for me? I didn’t rant or say anything abusive. I certainly did not comment on who should and shouldn’t have children.

But onto your point about big pharma and bias due to funding. While you are correct to say that big pharmaceutical companies fund research and funding definitely does introduce bias, your comment shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how science works - there are strong safeguarding controls such as peer reviews, disclosure of funding, independent analysis of the results, meta analyses etc.

You are also incorrect to assume that all or even the majority of vaccine research is funded by companies. It is also funded by WHO, governments around the world, public bodies such as the UK health security agency. What’s more, different health bodies across the world come to the same conclusions. And it’s not even the case that some countries think one thing and others think something else, this is something that scientists and doctors worldwide agree oN. Vaccines have been available for decades And the real world evidence shows that vaccines work. Measles was eradicated in the UK when the vaccine uptake was enough for herd immunity.

The evidence for vaccines working is overwhelming - to be frank I have no idea why anyone would talk about “cherry picking” evidence.

And to be honest, your uninformed view is actually damaging. If anyone who reads this thinks you are right, it might dissuade from vaccinating their children, even though you said you weren’t against vaccines but you have made it sound like they are way more risky than they are.

Even if they are lying it is fact that there have been very rare deaths and rare side effects.

Conspiracy, where? Have you ever undertook any education into research methods? It is a highly common phenomenon for research to have data cherry-picked to support the hypothesis. Such research being funded by those aiming to make billions from selling a product is no coincidence.

I agree, to an extent. I dont agree with attacking people for their personal choices regarding their body. I dont agree with saying people against vaccinations shouldn't be allowed to have children. I think people should carefully consider the research and side effects of each individual vaccination before agreeing to them. I have much more respect for somebody that chooses to research what is going into their bodies, than someone who blindly does it because somebody else told them to (regardless of who that person is) whom then goes onto MN to berate and insult others for their own choices.

No. This is incorrect. The measles outbreak is because of people refusing the MMR vaccine (measles, mumps and rubella) which has been routinely given to children since the 1960s and 1970s. The MenB vaccine protects against meningitis, not measles, and that's the one that has only been routinely offered since 2015.

The vaccine reduces the chances of getting long covid.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(23)00414-9/fulltext

So more evidence of the importance of vaccination

@Beautifulsiro56 Anti-vaxxers shouldn’t even consider having children until they develop a basic sense of responsibility.
Goady in the extreme. There are many ways to be an irresponsible parent and many different definitions of 'irresponsible'.
Do you want people sterilised if they don't agree with you about every single point?

I might have agreed with you a decade ago, but a casual glance at FB groups - that are regional news sources - quickly dispels this thought.

There is an impenetrable wall of willful ignorance out there, where anyone offering clear, helpful language with the correct educational links and scientific data etc. is met with mockery at best, and insults aplenty.

It is depressing to see and read. The abuse you speak of is almost always coming from those who have no understanding of what immunisation has achieved. Trying to convince people of the efficacy of childhood vaccines with gentle language and links to help them read and understand more is hopeless with so many. I know, because I have tried, and I have seen others try, repeatedly.

I now believe we should be more robust in our handling of those who refuse to vaccinate. No vaccines, no school place. The same with any medical attention. We cannot keep pandering to ignorance. Vaccination is a social contract and we do it for ourselves, as well as the greater good.

When I took my babies for their shots, I always had in mind I was protecting them firstly, then everyone else who CANNOT receive them. I didn't do it for Emma from Wigan to opt out and claim she had 'done her research', while piggybacking off the herd immunity we afford them.

While I am pro vaxx (even paying privately for some jabs not available on the NHS) I struggle with some of the animosity towards anti vaxxers. I was treated very badly during my first labour which lead to some life threatening complications and mental health issues. As a result I did go through a stage of being very mistrusting of the medical profession and if I didn't have sibling who is a doctor I probably would have been taken in by the anti vax stuff. Some of the birth trauma groups I was in had lots of anti vaxx members.

We need to acknowledge the faults in the medical system in order to regain people's trust. Let's face it, it's mainly mothers making the vax decision and ultimately taking them to the doctors (or not). If they have had a bad experience of doctors a few short weeks before while giving birth, is it any wonder they don't want to offer up their precious baby for jabs? The general misogyny within the medical profession is also a real problem.

We also have to address racism within the medical system. Vaccine refusal is highest among black people. Is it any wonder that there is mistrust when black women are far more likely to die in labour than white woman? Do you really expect people to trust doctors when as recently as the 1970s you had things like the Tuskagee Syphilis experiment going on?

Instead of name calling we need sensible conversations and the concerns of people worried about vaccines need to be adressed.

Lol. Why on earth would I make something like that up? I dont disagree that there are lots of people still suffering with long covid. I bet many, if not all of them had the jab

I agree to some extent, but I think the government and the NHS have to take some of the blame for poor public health messaging and the fact that many vaccines just aren't available enough. With the meningitis B that's going around right now, people should have been offered vaccinations for it on the NHS long before it got to this stage, rather than it being something only people who can afford to pay £200 privately can get. I also think it would help if they were just more upfront and honest in their messaging.
It became a real issue when officials started downplaying the risks of covid infections and implying it was actually a good thing to catch all sorts of infections just to build "natural immunity." It was obvious they only pushed that narrative because they wanted kids in schools and adults at work for the sake of the economy. It was always nonsense, but that kind of messaging has now bled into everything else. It has convinced people that it is fine to catch and spread dangerous diseases and that infections are somehow good for you or improve your immune system. I know people who are convinced that catching measles would be good for their children and build up their immune systems! Because public health in this country is generally so poor and inconsistent it's no wonder people are left confused and misinformed.

I think many people here picture a white crunchy mummy or maga type when they hold a mental image of someone who doesn't vaccinate their children.

The reality is that the majority are non ethnically British and belong to different communities, might not speak English well, might not be particularly affluent and likely have a lot of children, statistically the more older siblings a child has, the less likely they are to be vaccinated.

The issues are less around vaccine refusal and more around the need for making it easier to get kids vaccinated.

I do my own research people get on my fucking tits.
Theyre the most likely people ever to fall for grifters. It’s the ego stroking they’re not like others and somehow more intelligent.
Ive recently lost my best friend to this cult bollocks so Im feeling a bit sore about it all. But once someone falls down a rabbit hole you can’t get them back. Shes made other friends with other people who believe climate change is a hoax and vaccines aren’t necessary and fresh air cures everything bollocks.
I also hate any form of spirituality. I find it victim blaming at the highest level in many ways. All this “we choose our parents” shit. Im sure baby Heather West would disagree if her parents hadn’t sexually abused her, murdered her and buried her in the back yard.
It’s all connected to the Andrew Tate shit show.
All utter bullshit.

People don't realise how devastating some "childhood" illnesses can be, because they're rarely seen these days. Being ancient, I can remember only too well.

A neighbour had a child a couple of years older than me who was quite badly disabled as a result of having polio, now virtually eradicated thanks to a worldwide vaccination programme.

One of my earliest memories is of being very ill with measles and the doctor visiting to see if I needed to go into hospital; a second is my mother crying (with relief) when I was finally well enough to want something to eat. Years later, she told me that two children at my nursery school had died of measles in that outbreak.

I was off school for 2 weeks when I had German measles at 6. I had mumps at 14, which could have affected my fertility (although that is rarer in girls than in boys). I was more pissed off that it meant I was stuck in bed for a big chunk of the summer holidays.

And I wish there'd been a chicken pox vaccine when I was a child. I got it when I was 36 and was so ill that I was off work for 3 weeks, and suffered repeated attacks of shingles for a couple of years afterwards.

We'd still have sodding smallpox if it wasn't for vaccinations.

And I can tell you of multiple people who have life changing issues resulting from long covid. The difference between me and you is I'm not making it up

This does come across as an ill informed conspiracy.

If you choose not to vaccinate your children then you are putting them at risk. It's dumb and I pity the children of antivaxxers. Not just because they are at risk of preventable illnesses, but also because they are being misled by their parents.

How many years of rigorous testing went into the Covid vaccine before deeming it safe for the public? If you cpukd find that info and pop it over to me, id love to send it to my mum who now has a chronic, life limiting disease that was sparked by this supposed sage vaccine. And before you say it, it has been confirmed that it was the vaccine that did this to her.

I think it's fine if people don't want to vaccinate their children actually.

As long as they don't socialise, educate, travel, work with normal people and as long as their get their medical help from the same sources as their anti-vax information... go see Sandra from Cornwall on Tiktik when your kid gets measles... stay away from the evil NHS.

I was one of them when I was younger but that's no reason not to believe in the science. Vaccines are effective for the majority and are you really going to chance it if you don't have to.

Spot on.

Google is a good place to look for information but you do have to have enough knowledge in the first place to know which sites to go to for correct information which have the facts verified.
@worldshottestmom actually astra zeneca made nothing from their COVID vaccine they sold at cost price. And most researchers don't just put on a white coat and goggles they have years of education and experience plus the scientists want to do a good job - if they wanted to make a fortune they would have gone into banking as they are bright enough

The irony. Just because you dont get charged for vaccinations doesnt mean the NHS doesnt. This is what all those 'weirdo' 'stupid' 'DUMB' anti-vaxxers mean when they refer to 'big pharma'. The NHS spends hundreds of millions annually on the procurement of vaccinations alone. Acting as if all medical guidance is done in the name of good will and good intentions is incredible naive. Everything is about money.

Im not speaking against vaccinations, but who the hell are you to go off on an abusive rant about people who choose not to vaccinate their children? Dictating they shouldn't be allowed to procreate if theyre not willing to do it? Are you insane? Could you imagine if there was a law dictating who can and cant have kids based on vaccination views. Insanity.

Also worth noting that all of the research that you put all your faith into is done whilst working within a paradigm, and funded by the companies selling the vaccinations. One to consider when thinking about the cherry-picking of data and published results, as well as any exaggeration of correlation coefficients showing the efficiency of such medicines.

"My body my choice" always goes out the window real quick when vaccinations are mentioned, huh.

And before you attack me with the mindless "hEhE StUpId AnTiVaXxEr' im not against vaccinations. What I am against is blindly believing the research of a company trying to make a profit, just because they wear lab coats and goggles. What I am against is insulting other people for their personal choices about their and their children's bodies. Look after yourself and your family. There are many reasons why people decide against vaccinations, and it has not a thing to do with you.

It makes me sick. I am due my second in the summer and the thought of measles and meningitis send shivers down my spine.

I am on a home birth group on Facebook and someone has posted that there kids aren’t vaccinated but are giving vitamins and probiotics to fight it off…. I am stunned at these people, honestly the ego they must have to think they know better is astounding.

I also know someone whose child is extremely medically complex and was unable to get some of these vaccines. The mum is worrying about having to put her household into a self imposed lockdown out of fear.

I am old enough to have known older people with Polio and the life long effects it had on them and I also have a relative who has a brain injury due to measles, I understand that some children can't have vaccines but surely if "yours" can you should.

Its repulsive of people to use the spectre of a childs death to push their anti vax agenda.

Abusing people about this issue isn’t going to help anyone. The only thing that will help is clear, helpful language and education with room for questions and issues to be raised without people screaming abuse. This kind of thread only entrenches positions.