Anti valuers are dumb and pathetic

I'm not entirely sure contracting and entirely preventable disease is as act of God though is it

Of course it is. There are plenty of unvaccinated people who do not go on to contract the disease in question, the only difference between those and the people who do is happenstance.

That's like saying folk that died of cholera or bubonic plague died due to an act of God

Precisely, because they were the unfortunate ones, unlike the other people living in the precise same circumstances at the same time, who didn't contract cholera or plague through sheer good fortune. You can't have it one way and not the other.

At the very least, it has to be child abuse

Well no, because as things stand it is not illegal to opt not to vaccinate children. It might be morally questionable, but while it's still perfectly legal I don't think it's in any way reasonable to term it "child abuse".

I mean Christ, you take your child out of school for five days and your getting a fine

That'll be because the State legally compels you to educate your children, so by withdrawing them from education without reasonable grounds you are in breach of this legal obligation. You are comparing apples and oranges, because again, it is not a legal obligation to vaccinate your child.

Barring a health condition or a legitimate reason not to vaccinated there's absolutely no reason at all children shouldn't be protected. "Mummy thinks you might get Autism, or get a little poorly" or any other crap is not an excuse or a reason not to vaccinate

Then the law needs to be changed to compel this, and by doing so you would also open the way for people who refuse to be prosecuted without the nonsense of the original suggestion, which amounted to "we are going to prosecute you retroactively for doing something which is and was perfectly legal"

The law does not prosecute people because they made morally dubious but perfectly legal choices, it prosecutes people who have acted illegally and broken the law. Although I think there would be issues regarding personal liberty if you compelled people to vaccinate, the State does legally compel Guardians to educate children to a certain minimum standard, so it's not as if there aren't already precedents for the State taking choice out of parents and Guardians hands and mandating that all children have to be subject to a certain stricture.

Thank you but I don’t need to. I’m vaccine injured so it’s not recommended for me / my babies to take any vaccines. Guess that makes me an anti-vaxxer 🤡

Is the recent outbreak related to lack of vaccination? Are the people who have caught it/died unvaccinated?

Genuinely curious

Turtles All the Way Down?

The book that's been widely condemned for being misleading.

It's been criticised for misunderstanding placebo use, selectively choosing sources, dismissing decades of research.

It's bullshit. Well written and convincing bullshit, but bullshit nonetheless

Don't feel bad you've been taken in by it

I'm sorry for your loss

But that's not the same thing at all

The Grand Debunk of the antivaxxer book “Turtles All the Way Down” (part 1/10) | Science-Based Medicine

Thank you.

@CheesyToes have a read of these.

That's not the same thing as being an anti-vaxxer

And there's a difference between 'not coping well' and having a life threatening reaction to them

Yes, I recall having to lie in a darkened room when I had measles (for fear that my eyesight would be affected).

I missed mumps and German measles somehow, but did have a bad case of Chickenpox. I had shingles twice later on. I've had my first dose of the shingles vaccine this year.

My SGD got her first MMR but apparently her parents failed to organise the required second dose when they moved abroad for seven years.

The result was that SGD got mumps when it hit her university campus.

I can & have provided links to reputable sources about the known harms of childhood diseases and the lack of deaths related to MMR. If I had time I could do it for other childhood vaccines.
Those against vaccines are not linking reputable sources.

For anyone who is genuinely interested in understanding more about vaccines - for or against. I would suggest starting with the well researched, factual book called Turtles All the Way Down. There are also many other books that are fully backed by the studies that claim that vaccines are safe and effective.
If you start with this book, you will naturally move onto other material and websites.
I have around 10 books that I have read - again, each and every one references the studies that have been carried out for every vaccines (excluding the covid vaccines).

Either way, it’s a deeply personal decision and I would never judge those that do/don’t vaccinate.

All the best.

Infectious childhood diseases can lead to death and serious complications.
For example, measles:

A child with measles will have to spend about five days in bed and could miss two weeks of school. Even in wealthier countries such as the UK, around one in every 15 children with measles will develop more serious complications. These can include:

• ear infection (otitis media) in about 8% of measles cases (about 1 in 12 people)
• pneumonia in up to 6% of measles cases (up to 1 in 16 people)
• diarrhoea in about 8% of measles cases (about 1 in 12 people)
• encephalitis (inflammation of the brain): 1 case for every 1000-2000 cases of measles. Encephalitis can lead to permanent brain damage.

https://vaccineknowledge.ox.ac.uk/measles#More-information

Serious complications from standard childhood vaccinations are rare. There are no recent recorded cases of deaths. For example the MMR has caused no deaths.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathorinjurycausedbymmrmeaslesmumpsandrubellavaccine

Children and adults have died from the conplications from measles in the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/measles-historic-confirmed-cases-notifications-and-deaths/measles-historic-confirmed-cases-notifications-and-deaths

People become frustrated and upset because not vaccinating children exposes them and others to serious health risks.

Calling people dumb/stupid/ignorant/idiots etc. doesn't help. Health education campaigns have to be redoubled. Access to vaccines need to be made easier.

Go on then, enlighten us.

Have you? Because I know people who have lost children to measles….

It's very predictable.

However, at least the queues of people waiting to get the Meningitis B vaccine today are taking this seriously.

Come on then @CheesyToes were all waiting and willing to read.

how on earth do you know what my credentials and qualifications are?

Yeh whatever . My child had a rare life threatening reaction to a vaccine and ended up in hospital. I still had him vaccinated for everything else

I'm sure some people would read it. You made the claim, back it up.

What do you think of this article?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(23)00414-9/fulltext

Did you read that?

I responded to your response. You have a typical response.

"Wowzas" "find it yourself lazybones"

Are you a teenager? Are you able to debate and offer evidence like an adult?

It appears not.

we could sign post you all day long. You’re not going to read Jack shit. Your mind is made up, and it’s not for me to change it.
Many ‘anti-vaxxers’ have sadly been forced to do their own research because they’re injured or have a child that’s died from vaccines. I’m pleased you’ve never experienced this.

Anti valuers are dumb and pathetic

I thought this was going to be a thread about people who hate Antiques Roadshow.

I just asked you to back up your claims with evidence. The teenage type reply 'find it yourself lazybones' speaks for itself. You have no evidence to back up your claims.

Pretty typical really. The response from someone who hasn't studied to a higher level.

wowzas. You sound unhinged. You’ve made a judgement of me, labelled me without even knowing anything about me. You are very unpleasant.
What you don’t realise is that you can laugh at ‘anti-vaxxers’ all you like, this is a reflection on you, not them.

A small number of people—numbering in the thousands globally—have experienced serious adverse events linked to the vaccination. These reactions are rare compared to the over 13 billion doses administered globally.
A secondary analysis of Phase III trial data for Pfizer and Moderna vaccines suggested an excess risk of serious adverse events of 12.5 per 10,000 vaccinated participants. .........or 0.125%
Evidence strongly suggests that the risk of serious complications—including myocarditis and clotting—is much higher from a COVID-19 infection than from a COVID-19 vaccination.