Anti valuers are dumb and pathetic

Agreed you don't if you trust the experts in the field. The scientists that have spent years working in the area of immunology, vaccines and disease prevention.

However, many of those against vaccines don't trust the experts in the field, they trust snake oil salesmen who push books that play to their fears. Often they also believe some randoms on Tic Toc or YouTube when they rant on the subject (Russell Brand anyone) followed by many who don't appear to understand the rubbish he rants.

Highly likely. Any old fool can write a book. If it appeals to people that don't understand the subject matter and are scared of vaccines; it will fly off the shelves making money for the author, whomever that was.

Then the poster with cheesy feet suggests a book written by an anonoymous author that has been debunked as evidence. Also suggests reading further get's expensive - that's because these anti vax pushers profit from selling books to individuals who have become terrified of vaccines to the extent that they don't allow their own children to be protected from diseases that they themselves would have been protected from when children. Make it make sense.

But you don't need to study science, as long as you trust those who have.

I know nothing about how a theatre works for example, but if a stage manager was to explain something to me, I'd listen to them rather than some grifter on the Internet

The response from someone who hasn't studied to a higher level.

Or any level, so far as the sciences are concerned.

Oh yes, 2+2=5. Something happening around the time of having a vaccine doesn’t mean it was caused by it. But I do, of course, understand the worry. I’m from a generation who remembers children going deaf from measles and needing to walk with the aid of calipers due to polio. So I think that, while I understand parents’ concerns, the best place to find answers is from scientific research publications rather than Joe Blow on the internet, where many people appear to be turning for their information these days.

I would hope that the information i posted about encephalitis, SSPE and death resulting from measles gives parents pause for thought if they choose not to vaccinate their children against this disease. This information is based on rigourous peer reviewed research not anecdotes posted on a chat forum.

There were a few posts here on MN back in the day from mothers whose young DC had been very ill, and ones who seemed to regress - lost speech, for example, when previously they had been progressing well.
These are anecdotal, of course, but they do give you pause for thought when you're about to take your healthy child for a jab.

A typo is nothing to do with intelligence….

It’s usually people with more than average empty space between their ears, if you know what I mean……

So was I. The Novavax one

Not that I agree with anti-vaxxers, but what an unfortunate typo in the headline of a thread dedicated to calling people with dissenting views, "dumb and pathetic".

That's weird, because I was in a clinical trial of the vaccines.

A local population survey in Germany showed that children under 5 who had measles had a 1 in 1700 to 1 in 3300 chance of developing SSPE. Children under the age of 3 faced a nearly twofold increased risk. In California, children under 5 had a 1 in 1367 risk, and those under the age of 1 had a 1 in 607 risk of postmeasles SSPE (Mekki et al. 2019).

Read upthread about whst SSPE is. Vaccination prevents measles. If you choose to vaccinate you can reduce the risk of SSPE post vaccination to almost 0.

Oh yes sorry haha

Wrong thread?

Ignore this, posted on wrong thread.

Child in Liverpool dies from measles:

https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/news/2025/expert-comment-child-dies-liverpool-after-contracting-measles

Low vaccination rates lead to infant infections in babies too young to be vaccinated. Infant infections can have devastating consequences.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.liverpool.ac.uk/2025/09/16/child-dies-from-complications-of-measles-years-after-infection-sspe-explained/amp/

I would absolutely agree that it helps no one to label people who do not give their children vaccines dumb, stupid etc. Nobody ever hears this and thinks 'yes - I have been stupid i must go out and vacinate my child'. Instead it angers people, they feel persecuted and they stop listening.

However, there is no doubt that scientific evidence supports the UK childhood vaccination schedule. The benefits of standard childhood vaccines far, far outweigh the risks. If you have concerns discuss them with your GP who has years of medical training and can access your child's nedical records. They are best placed to advise you.

I do not apologise for post this information about measles again.

A child with measles will have to spend about five days in bed and could miss two weeks of school. Even in wealthier countries such as the UK, around one in every 15 children with measles will develop more serious complications.
These can include:
ear infection (otitis media) in about 8% of measles cases (about 1 in 12 people)
pneumonia in up to 6% of measles cases (up to 1 in 16 people
diarrhoea in about 8% of measles cases (about 1 in 12 people)
encephalitis (inflammation of the brain): 1 case for every 1000-2000 cases of measles. Encephalitis can lead to permanent brain damage.
In countries like the UK, measles causes death in about 1 in 5000 cases.
In rare cases, measles can lead to a condition called SSPE (subacute sclerosing panencephalitis). SSPE is a persistent viral infection, a devastating complication of measles which leads to a progressive destruction of the central nervous system. Symptoms can develop years after the initial infection. It results in dementia, loss of motor control, epilepsy and eventually death.

Vaccines protect children from these side effects. They prevent deaths and lifelong disabilities.

I didn’t call anyone an anti vaxxer. And I’m not sure I understand what you mean about your grandchildren with Cystic Fibrosis. It is recommended that children who are physically vulnerable or immunosuppressed have the Covid vaccine. Why would that advice stop you from having it?

“Anti vax folk are all Morons” is the same as “all brexit voters are racist”.

I mean the Venn diagrams for anti vaxxer/moron and brexit/racist are pretty close together; but they fundamentally also show a dissatisfaction with the current system to meet their needs, and that I can empathise with even if I think those people are being misled by charlatans.

I'm not thinking of people who use YouTube for medical advice though. I think when you think of anti vaxers and when I think of anti vaxers we're considering 2 different types of people.

You see all anti vaxers as the sort of people who learn about the world through YouTube, tictok etc which I agree is unhealthy in all sorts of ways, not just for health advice.

I imagine many, not all anti vaxers are people who are worried and scared to do the wrong thing for their and their children's health. The reason they are scared is because of past experience such as pandemrix, government mandates, well documented issues with the covid vax and lack of understanding about these concerns.

I don't believe that all anti vaxers think in the same way or have the same motivation. That's what I mean by different points of view.

True but I think you need to ask MNHQ to edit your header...

Many years ago now one of the Scandinavian countries conducted a risk/benefit analysis of vaccines.

I understand that it came down very strongly in favour of vaccination but I have no idea where to find it.

I’m allergic to penicillin. If I took it I would be very ill or could die. Would that mean that all antibiotics are bad and no one should take them, or just that I, a singular person, had a bad reaction to one particular type.

Vaccines themselves are not bad, but doubtless some people will have reactions to them. Vaccines are responsible for saving millions of lives, as are antibiotics. Just because I’m allergic to one antibiotic doesn’t mean everyone else shouldn’t take them. Just because some people react badly to vaccines doesn’t make them inherently unsafe.

Exactly. There's a middle ground and compassion for those who are perhaps injured or metabolise differently and can't have certain shots. It's good to see someone else on here with a more balanced view!