Racism in uk

She was talking about the racism experienced about her Muslim partner and that he was down about it, and you pipe up with Jews have it worse than Muslims. It’s not a race to the bottom.

The OP didn’t say anything about other countries so you saying ‘But starting a thread suggesting the UK is any worse than anywhere else will and should be challenged. We aren't, we are far better than many places. I'd rather live here than the intolerant ME for example.’ is completely bizarre and not obvious at all. She didn’t start the thread that is in your imagination.

You also were emphatic that Christians in the ME never meet in public places and yet when given examples of Lebanon and Egypt, you ignore them.

Anyway back to the OP, most people in daily life are not going to be randomly racist to you. What you see on social media is just the most extreme people amplified.

Yes well I mean hate crime is a bit more of a solid quantitative measure of harm than the much broader, vaguer measure of discrimination isn’t it?

I said "sometimes". Try to read comments before responding.

She didn’t say islamaphobia, she said racism, does racism only affect muslim people?

Well it's obviously relevant to compare our inclusion and tolerance to other countries and nope, we aren't 'getting worse' and while extremists do not represent all Muslims nor do racists represent all Brits.

Threads like these draw excited racists like honey to a bee.

The UK is not getting worse, people are just wearing their racism with pride.

I thought the thread was about whether the UK was getting worse. Not how does it compare with other countries.

I think you are right but per capita Jews are the most likely to experience racism

That stat is about hate crime, not overall racism, they are not the same thing.

Who is demanding people change their ways?

'And I'd be very thankful to live in an inclusive nation of it wasn't for the influx of Alf Garnetts, yapping on with their 1970s racist rhetoric spoiling it for those of us who enjoy living in a diverse society.'

That sounds xenophobic tbh, a sweeping generalisation of what you think Brits are like? The majority are kind and tolerant. Like the majority of Muslims.

The extremists and racists are not representative of white and brown people. We should all have realised by now that we shouldn't label any nation by the extremists and if all islamists aren't jihadis then all Brits are not islamophobes.

IThey do pray in public, Gloria. Why have you ignored all examples in Lebanon as well?

Well if that's what you meant, that's what you should have said, isn't it? You asked for a Muslim country where large numbers of Christians can congregate in public, and there you are.
And I'd be very thankful to live in an inclusive nation of it wasn't for the influx of Alf Garnetts, yapping on with their 1970s racist rhetoric spoiling it for those of us who enjoy living in a diverse society.

My family came here and tried their best to fit in to their new country. They learnt the language, they worked and socialised with their neighbours. They took on the Scottish customs and way of life. They didn't live with others from their country and religion, they didn't demand everyone around them change to their ways, they respected their new country. My Husband's family did the same. You want to live here then you join in with British life and adopt British values, you don't move here and start demanding and you certainly don't move here and expect others to pay for you.

Christians have been slaughtered en masse by extremists, they havent just 'died'. They couldn't go and pray in the city centre. You listed Syria, not me.

I’m surprised that people are saying it was worse. I’m in my late 50s and I think it is the worst it has ever been. I think it is because a lot of people have been struggling for a long time and they want someone to blame which is understandable. They should be blaming successive governments but instead are blaming people who look different. It’s a story as old at the hills.

I increasingly feel that we should acknowledge that humans are programmed to look for difference. Difference is exciting and interesting, but it can also be frightening and destabilising, both of which cause humans to act badly. I think social policy needs to accept that and work to mitigate its worst effects.

For me, 'worst effects' means racism, whether hidden or overt. I believe in equity vs equality, representation and access policies, etc. But i think 'worst effects' are also ghettoisation and resistance to integration, and especially the particular resistance to integration that is rooted in misogyny.

I think there is a real tension between the goals of anti-racism (we're all the same) and multiculturalism (we're very distinct groups and that's ok). The former cannot tolerate any oppression or disadvantage based on characteristics of birth - race obviously, but then logically extending to sex, sexual orientation etc. Multiculturalism, on the other hand, has been far too willing to accept misogyny or homophobia as 'cultural difference'.

Relativism is destabilising in any society - I think humans lean towards a hierarchy of values flowing from one overarching value. In our case, it should be 'we are all of equal value' . We should have the balls to assert that hierarchy - there is nothing intrinsically wrong with an order of importance, but somehow it became the bathwater to inequality's baby for the social justice movement.

I think that if we'd pursued antiracism and equality for women with equal vigour, there would have been an instinctive feeling of balance and coherence that would smooth over other bumps in the road. But as with so much in life, it hasn't happened because no men - 'British' or not - really want it.

I hope that my last point shows I don't believe that Western/British culture is inherently less misogynistic in real terms than others. But I do think that in terms of the state it is less so, and that the cultural aspects of its misogyny are less flagrant. I'm not sure that makes it any better overall - hidden misogyny is harder to tackle, by definition - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't tackle the flagrant misogynies we do see.

Relatedly, because it intersects heavily with the precepts of multiculturalism - I think most religions are rooted in oppressions of one kind or another and should not be allowed to intersect with the state in any way. Church of England schools - no. Hijab in school - no. I don't think that any weight should be given to religion in the curriculum other than in history, where it invariably demonstrates its propensity towards division and violence. The solution to racism is not to give children the idea that religion is so significant that they must learn about every single one in depth at the age of seven - it is to counter the indoctrination of children at family level by exposing them to the idea that religion is a personal matter. The state should not interfere, but neither should it celebrate.

Finally - thanks if you've got this far - I think that it was insane to think that a society made up of separate groups could ever be at ease with itself. We should always have insisted on a base level of integration and enforced our nominal values of equality, democracy, reason etc in both old and new communities. But crucially, we should not have allowed that to be hijacked by a conservative insistence that nothing in the old culture must change. We should have highlighted and celebrated the re-energising, invigorating impact of incomers on cultures and societies which might otherwise stagnate, but are now able to move forward, a little changed, together.

Course we can always do better. But starting a thread suggesting the UK is any worse than anywhere else will and should be challenged. We aren't, we are far better than many places. I'd rather live here than the intolerant ME for example.

Gloria, Syria is in war, both Muslims and Christians have died. But they do gather publicly and practise their faith.

I don’t think the level of racism is getting worse. However, people are feeling very disenfranchised in their own communities and are now being vocal about it. The problem that the government is not addressing - or any of the councils - is the number of illegal immigrants who are now being dispersed to hotels throughout the UK. I’m up in Scotland and we have three migrant hotels in my relatively small county. On top of this we have councils who are now also putting these people into private lets - at a huge cost - while locals who have been on the waiting lists for ages struggle to be housed. Another concern is the number of sex crimes reported. It’s all very worrying and personally, I feel that our area is being swamped now by people who will fundamentally change it. It’s a scary and worrying time.

So who is it spewing hatred on the streets of London on a weekly basis?

Egypt, Syria???? Have you not seen the news, Christians are persecuted and slaughtered in both countries. I don't think Malaysia is renowned for being a strict Muslim nation, do you?

Again. We are an inclusive country, Muslims can pray en masse in Traflagar square with only the odd moan on X, they are not being murdered which I guarantee would happen to Christians in Syria.

We can be thankful but also continue to fight against any ongoing antisemitism, Islamophobia, racism etc too though?they aren’t mutually exclusive surely. We can always do better I think, even though the UK is more tolerant than many nations which is great.