To ask what you really think of apprenticeship s

I can only speak for the course my eldest is on.

The apprentice students do 9 to 5 one day a week (and apply their knowledge in the workplace, more and more as the course progresses).

The course is 5 years.

The full time students do about 8 hours lectures a week for 3 years.

Ita a different route. What's better is down to the individual and to an extent, the kind of course they want to do.

Your friends say "what a waste".

That's a passive aggressive way of saying "your choice is wrong". Id be wondering why they're doing that. Are they perhaps worried about their own choices??

I have never come across anyone who has done a degree/professional apprenticeship. Actually, traditional trades apprenticeships are pretty rare in my experience.

My experience, of "apprenticeships" has been the rebranding of the old "skillseekers/YTS" schemes as apprenticeships - i.e. slave labour. A family member, for example, was an apprentice warehouse worker, until he hit 18 and needed more than £1.50 per hour when he got binned.

They route you are referring to sounds amazing, but most people won't have come across it, and are maybe just cynical.

Didn't RTFT. Just some of OP.

Degree apprenticeships are few in number and extremely difficult and competitive to get. They also tend to be part of career paths that my kids weren't keen to follow.

Trade and vocation apprenticeships are easier to get but also under-supplied and involve long travel hours from where my kids grew up, require being on low pay for years.

those are what I feel & believe.

I think that degree apprentiships are brilliant and there should be far more of them. If someone gets one I assume they are very bright and motivated.

I think many level 3 and 4 apprentiships also are well structured and worth doing.

I think some of the level 2 and 3 ones are a bit dubious and are just cheap labour with no real job prospect and training that isnt yseful. Not all. Some are good.

Far more difficult and competitive to gain a place on a highly sought after Degree Apprenticeship than a place at University to study a degree full time.

You do understand Degree Apprenticeships study their degree at University?

I just think people honestly don't understand them or are just not very bright.
I have 2 degrees.
1 done through University full time.
1 done through a degree apprenticeship. The amount of modules, assignments, exams were exactly the same as full time equivalent. It's an extremely intense route alongside working at the same time but we were all by far the most sought after applicants for jobs. Also I was paid nearly 30k a year plus all my Uni fees. There's a reason they're so competitive.

Friend of DS goes to uni two days a week over four years (usual degree is three years). He also gets weeks of study leave. Uni days are long and intensive.
The practical side of the course would be more than covered in his working hours.
He has less time to socialise than straight uni students - it's harder work. The uni might not be top tier but in his field, it's a lot easier to get a job having both relevant work experience and a degree, than coming out as a fresh graduate. It's also very likely he will be kept on where he is, which at the moment is what he wants.

@thinkyone I think I would have struggled with that.
I kept telling myself that a lone 16yr old girl in a strange hotel room would be absolutely fine. She's one of two girls on the course.

We have a paramedic degree apprenticeship but it’s only available for internal applicants. It’s a brilliant way to train paramedics. The police also run an apprenticeship. There is no reason why doctors couldn’t be educated using a well designed medical degree apprenticeship.

One of my dd’s friends is doing a degree apprenticeship with a multinational law firm - there was huge competition for the six places starting in September and so far she’s really enjoying it. Another friend has just got an apprenticeship at the BBC. These are both very bright girls who also had offers from Russell group universities but decided that wasn’t for them. My dd did a level 3 apprenticeship on an eventing yard - she knew she wanted to ride professionally so that was the best route for her. And to be honest I’m glad she didn’t go to university as school was a disaster for her mental health and the thought of her perfectionism running wild without the moderating effect of being at home gave me he heebie-jeebies. As it was she moved out of home as soon as she’d sat her last A-level exam and rapidly learned about budgeting, managing her time, healthy nutrition etc and grew up very fast.

My son is doing an apprenticeship & it was hard to get, he applied for around 25 apprenticeships. He feels very fortunate as he is learning so much & earning money, paying rent, running a car & going off in holiday with his friend next month. He'll hopefully come out of this with a lot of hands on experience (engineering), a qualification & no debt. According to h8m the only downside is that he doesn't get long school holidays off like his university friends.

I think they’re a great way to start a career. And perfect for some. But I for one was not ready to start a career at 18. I did a STEM degree then a vocational (STEM adjacent) masters. I’d have hated a career in physics which I thought I liked best at 18. I also benefited ENORMOUSLY from my university experience in broadening my mind, learning about the world and doing various summer jobs and travelling.
I guess I didn’t do enough as a teen but I grew up in a very working class area that was quite inward looking so didn’t really have the opportunities. I honestly got so much more than a degree from my university experiences.

Your friends are shallow snobs, OP.

I write that as Russell Group academic from a university that gets a lot of students rejected by Oxbridge.

I do think PP questioning the study allocation has an implicit point. If you have only a small proportion of time for study you must use it efficiently. You don’t have time for the wide ranging intellectual convos and ‘what if’ explorations that can be fantastic sources if growth, and even life changing. The truth is, however, that few students (at least in my field) seem to be interested in these conversations anyway. Realistically, you probably aren’t missing that much.

I am very interested in @Twitinthewindow ’s comment that apprentice engineers seem better qualified than those from a strictly academic background. If you have anything to add to that, TIA.

I think they're great. If I had a child I think I'd encourage them to go down that route.

And at the end of the apprenticeship he’ll be able to apply for senior positions that require 5+ years experience so he’ll be able to go into mid to upper tier salary bands for the roles. My role for example is benchmarked at £95k-£130k dependent on experience, less than 2 years would be at the lowest end of that, straight out of an apprenticeship could be mid range on approx £110k.

The whole idea of going to uni as the only option is so outdated!
I work with people up to their eyeballs in debt but now in jobs that aren’t relevant to their degrees.

My DD (20) did an apprenticeship and was offered a F/T job there whilst still doing it.

I've worked in the apprenticeships sector and a good, technical, structured, training apprenticeship, at level 3 and beyond are definitely worth it. A friend's son did his A levels, got a apprenticeship with a tech company, is not yet 30 and earns £200k a year, no debt! Others I placed are now management, one a director. Do your research, they are not easy to get as competition is now fierce and applications for September and beyond start, for this year, should already be in. DH had a good mechanical engineering apprenticeship, late 70s / 80s and ended up with an excellent, constantly employed, employment path. Degrees work in some sectors, not all, an example is a friend's daughter having been turned down for a retail training place, as her 1:1 in Media Production was not seen as being relevant, is now in a minimum wage admin role. Good degree level apprenticeships should not / never be confused with tick box ones run for staff already doing a role, usually at L2, they are very different, rather like degrees in some subjects are not worth it, regardless of how sold by a university.

They’re great in my opinion.
My work offers apprenticeships in electrical engineering which a colleague joined a few years ago, it’s 4 days on the job, 1 day in a college style environment but all done on site. He’s already earning triple what I am and has skills that he can transfer literally anywhere. If I wasn’t dyslexic and a bit thick I would have considered it for myself.

University is a lost cause these days unless you want to go into a field where you need a degree such as medicine or law.

More young people are starting to realise it’s a waste of time and all you achieve is a load of debt, setting your career progression back 3/4 years and at the end of it you’ve got 400 people with the same qualification trying to find the same job and they all end up in a role that has nothing to do with their degree.

My ds has 5 university offers and has applied for four graduate apprenticeships. One of the apprenticeships places him on one of the degree courses he has applied for. The others are same subject, different universities. The only difference is the degree apprenticeship takes 5 years instead of three and he works over the Easter & Summer holidays. They do the same work in the same labs.

And obviously, it will cost him £60,000 less.

I don't mind which he chooses. We'll take the best offer on results day.

Your friends clearly don't understand the difference between a degree apprenticeship and, for example, a level 2 one.

I think they are all pretty much great for the right person.

40 yrs of incoming uni debt. Apprenticeship sounds very attractive

If your DS can get an apprenticeship then that’s great. Well done his gf for getting a degree apprenticeship. That’s amazing - academic and work experience combined is perfect.

My niece did a L4 apprenticeship straight after her A levels. 4 years on, she doing so well. She’s been promoted and has a fantastic career in the civil service. Her friends who went to uni have really struggled to get jobs in their chosen field. I think actual work experience is valued highly by employers these days.

a degree apprenticeship is the bees knees - you got a job and get a degree , although incredibly hard work - harder than a simple degree

unless you need a specific course for your preferred future like being a vet, or you want to work in academic research , or you have a deep fascination with a particular topic , university isn’t everything by any means

Theres a big shift away from academic qualifications and into skills based certification, employers want to know that the person they are hiring is capable of actually doing the job not just has the theoretical knowledge of what the subject area involves.

Apprenticeships are a very good way of developing the theory and putting it to practice at the same time, proving competency and building experience simultanueously.

ive seen some brilliant Cybersecurity apprenticeships with starting salaries of £28k which is a really good salary for an 18 year old who is also getting a course and time to study.