AIBU to question praying and sleeping in the library kids area?

If an adult is moving around the children's area picking out books to borrow then of course that is okay. The issue is when a lone adult settles down in this space and it becomes obvious they don't have a child with them.

Doing research? In our libraries junior sections have small child sized tables and chairs, along with sofas and bean bags, and the PCs are set so they can only be accessed with a child ticket. There aren't study spaces which would work for an adult so you would have to take the books you were looking at to a more suitable area.

You personally may not see a need for it, but it exists.

You are far too cunning to understand anything explained to you. Enjoy.

There was no reason or justification for him praying in the children’s area.

There have been a number of ‘public praying’ events in Western countries. Mass events stopping traffic on public roads or taking over public spaces. It is a display of power. The people doing this know that no one in charge dares to challenge them.

If we continue to turn a blind eye this encroachment and entitlement will only get worse. And then the new definition of ‘anti Muslim’ hate crimes will stop us from even complaining.

Last sentence sums you up.

That comment makes no sense

I doubt anyone told him to go and pray in the children's library

Oh yes, I totally agree. It wouldn't enter my head to complain or expext action. I still think they could sit in the adult section though.

YANBU. It’s a designated space for children. They could easily have gone elsewhere in the library. The man wanting to pray could have asked the librarian beforehand for a quiet space to do this. Like you said, there are so many children in poverty and they have as much right (if not more imo) to have access to a safe, warm space with books etc. It’s not fair for them to be denied this by two adults sleeping and praying.
I would definitely get in touch with the LA about this.
It’s not appropriate at all.

Christianity is a ‘foreign religion’, unless you’re in the Middle East. We still can’t shop for more than 6 hours on a Sunday because of Christianity, and we have bank holidays which are observed on Christian religious holidays. So no, we aren’t a predominantly secular society. No such arrangement has been made for other religions on their holidays, so we haven’t treated them equally to Christianity. If we are a predominantly secular society, and that’s what you want, I take it you are equally opposed to any use of the library by children making Easter or Christmas decorations, and are very vocal about the need to remove the bank holidays from Christian religious holidays?

You can borrow children’s books, in general - there are often differences in rules between different regions - but you’d still need to pay fines if applicable. That’s determined by your ticket, not what you borrow.

I've often gone into the children's section alone (research into children's fiction). I see no need to ban unaccompanied adults.

Not meaning to derail the thread, but a question for the librarians. Are unaccompanied adults really banned from the childrens book area? Are we not permitted to borrow childrens books?

@KTheGrey PP suggested that having religious books or books with diversity of opinion in a library means that those ideas can be acted out in that space.

No, I didn't say that. As I already explained, I said that the presence of religion in a library (such as people praying, or having religious texts) is still compatible with a library being a place that is neutral on religion.

praying is either inside a dedicated space or done in a way that people not praying are not inconvenienced.

So literally what I said then?

Why did you feel the need to repeat something that I stated and present it as your own thoughts?

Never mind.

I always know what point I am trying to make. It is one of the joys of being me.

PP suggested that having religious books or books with diversity of opinion in a library means that those ideas can be acted out in that space. I was pointing out that ideas trapped safely inside books don’t do anything. People with ideas can use those ideas to action them. Having ideas in library books does not licence acting them out, or Wuthering Heights would not be permitted in libraries at all because nobody wants the hanging of pet dogs there.

People can choose what they do. And they can choose to act appropriately - praying is either inside a dedicated space or done in a way that people not praying are not inconvenienced.

Whether you give a shit or not is supremely unimportant because it’s a shared space, so what’s acceptable is not dependent on your shit giving. It’s an agreed norm.

Only considerate of others if they are the "right" people. E.g. super considerate to a trans-women who wants to use any space, but inconsiderate to the women who were already using it. Or in this case - very considerate of the man using the children's area to pray but inconsiderate of the kids waiting to choose their books.

It doesn’t matter. He doesn’t “need” to do anything, he is an adult who has chosen to believe in a system created 1500 years ago 1000s of miles away. If he can’t find somewhere suitable to pray then he can’t pray. He can’t just decide to occupy an area reserved for kids in a public building. If praying is that important he needs to arrange his life in such a way that doesn’t impact on others. If he can’t do that, he doesn’t get to pray (which is an optional activity/ even if his chosen belief system trues to say otherwise)

We can! As pp mentioned, libraries have bye-laws and that is one of ours.

4. No person who in the
reasonable opinion of a library
officer is offensively unclean in
person or clothing or both
shall remain in the library after
having been asked by a library
officer to leave the library.

Also, no sleeping:

10. No person shall sleep in the
library after having been
requested not to do so by a
library officer.

Adults are asked to move if they are in the children's area without a child, and there are no designated prayer spaces. All our separate rooms cannot be used without being booked and paid for.

It affects you by establishing that someone - probably not coincidentally a man - has more right to use a space for something other than it was originally intended, while those for whom it was originally intended have to put up, shut up, and in fact should go away and come back at another time when it’s more convenient for the man.

And smile about it. Let’s not forget that bit.

@KTheGrey A book is like a pot of jam - the ideas or the jam are contained in an inanimate format. A person decides what they do and in what place. They are not confined and they act. Books do nothing. People have agency.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make, and I strongly suspect that you don't know either.

I'm not sure how people having agency means they shouldn't be allowed to pray in a library. I don't give a shit what anyone does in a library so long as it does not affect me.

@Annasimon If a person is praying in a library, then that very act makes it then not a neutral space. That is not hard to understand.

Evidently, it's difficult for you to understand.

There's one man who's nearly always asleep in the same chair in my local library. It doesn't really cause a problem. But there is also a very smelly man often in the adult section and that is a problem. I don't think the staff can turf someone out just because they smell.

We still don’t know if there was a
“Is there anywhere I can pray?”
”Just go wherever/over there”
conversation

What about those sheep who believe conspiracy theories?

Your attitude encourages intolerance in my view. He would be seen as being entitled. This breeds resentment. As the librarian posted on this post the space was meant for children.