To feel guilted into being vegan??? AIBU?

Yeah -I just like MBs books. I have a few of them. You can get them for around 3 quid second hand

when someone is posting about wanting to go vegan I don't think being told to eat better welfare meat is the answer. People stop eating meat because they don't want to eat animals
Not necessarily true. I eat very little meat because I only want to eat the higher-welfare/less environmentally destructive stuff, and it's (rightly) expensive. My concerns are for the environment, and for animal welfare to the point of giving food animals a better life and a more dignified and merciful death, but I can't honestly say I have an ethical or emotional problem with eating animals per se.

The Vegan society has lots of recipes online for free and there are tons of vegan food bloggers with recipes too.

There's a one pound vegan meal book by Miguel Barclay that I would recommend -you can get it cheap second hand.

Fab recipes and low cost

There are no farm shops near me and nothing will persuade me to eat meat again. For me the animal dies a horrible death -no matter the life it's had.

I personally can't do it. People can do what they like -I have family members that aren't vegan but when someone is posting about wanting to go vegan I don't think being told to eat better welfare meat is the answer. People stop eating meat because they don't want to eat animals

Money is a factor too. Some people don't have lots spare

My point was in response to someone criticising the environmental impact of vegan diets because of their soy content. The vast majority of soy grown worldwide is for animal feed for farming livestock. If we all reduced our meat intake, there would be no need to grow anywhere near that amount of soybeans, especially when it involves chopping down rainforests.

Don't buy meat and dairy from supermarkets. Buy from farm shops, or online direct from producers. It will be more expensive, but the welfare standards will be much higher.

I live rurally, I know many farmers, my friends raise animals and my neighbour is a dairy farmer. None of their animals are cruelly treated. The trike is if Labour's war on farmers succeeds these are the producers who will go out of business and welfare standards will fall.

Eat less, eat better

@MauvePombear Yes! It’s so bizarre.

We are literally trying to minimise the harm done to animals - what is there to mock or criticise?

But most soy is not suitable for human consumption.

Food miles are only a small part of the picture. The environmental impact of beef purchased direct from a farm next door to your house is significantly worse than the environmental impact of imported avocados. You can see it here - Environmental Impacts of Food Data Explorer - Our World in Data. Greenhouse gas emissions per kilogram of beef are so much higher than any plant-based food, even those coming from abroad.

Same with milk - people understandably get concerned about the environmental impact of almond milk, but it's so much less impactful than dairy: Dairy vs. plant-based milk: what are the environmental impacts? - Our World in Data

So yes, there are definitely ethical pros and cons to any diet, but if you're talking about the environment specifically, meat and dairy are significantly worse than any other form of food, regardless of where it comes from.

Always someone trying to gotcha

Paper notes are polymer free

You're incorrect about phones

I can't remember the last time I used cash

I don't want to eat meat. Hth

I don’t think any vegan thinks they are 100% perfect and guilt free.

But we are cutting out as many foods and products that directly kill or harm animals and doing the best we can.

How that is criticised and belittled will always baffle me. “But avocados tho…” yeah ok

Eat whatever you want, it's your choice. Don't kid yourself that it 's possible to eat entirely ethically on any diet though. The food miles are higher for vegans eating imported nuts and legumes that don't grow here. Avocado farming has horrific consequences for humans being turfed out of their homes for monoculture. Plus all the bugs killed with pesticides are just as dead as the baby mammals we eat. You just need to decide what level of unethical you are happy with.

Why is it? If your actively using animal proteins in your day to day life why is it any different to eating animal proteins in your diet

One film worth watching re veganism is vegucated-its on you tube. It's not particularly gory at all but it's a good watch. It's about a group of people who are challenged to go vegan for six weeks

One of the daftest arguments against being vegan!!!!!! Just think about this logically please.

Literally no animals are directly killed to be eaten by a vegan. That’s the point.

As for all the wildlife harmed by growing and harvesting crops and veg….. most of those crops are used as animal feed, and the other crops and veg are eaten by vegans and omnivores.

All that environmental destruction to grow soy - what do you think that soy is for?????

Ridiculous argument

Some farms do abuse animals. The Cathedral City suppliers abuse happens for over three years on one farm -some animals are unfortunately abused in slaughterhouses too. They don't even get dignity at the end of their lives

We profess to be a nation of animal lovers. Too many people don't associate what's on their plate with misery

Well exactly. And you are also being unreasonable to think anyone cares about what you eat.

You don't have to go the whole hog (if you'll excuse the pun). Perfection can be the enemy of good, because there is huge benefit to both animal welfare and the environment if you cut down on your meat and dairy consumption, even if you don't give them up completely.

You could try having a couple of vegan days per week and use them as an opportunity to find vegan alternatives you like (for example, I'm not fully vegan but I switched to oat milk for all of my coffees because I actually like it). Then when you do buy meat or dairy, buy the best quality showing highest welfare standards using the money you've saved from eating less of it.

In time you'll either move more towards being fully vegetarian or vegan if it's working for you, or you'll decide you're happy with the way things are, but will still have reduced your contribution to environmental damage and cruelty to animals by reducing your consumption of animal products.

I have worked on various farms over the years. I have vegan and vegetarian friends, who don't push their thoughts onto me, and I don't try to ram steaks down their throats. I have seen some pro-vegan videos. While I agree that some are awful and those people should not be permitted to work with animals (e.g. one where cows were being hit with shovels), some do misunderstand some "normal" farming practices, e.g. if a cow falls, she can do what's known as 'the splits', which can damage her muscles, ligaments and tendons, or even break a bone. She may be unable to walk without wearing a pair of shackles- two bands of material around her ankles, with a chain in the middle- which stop her legs from splaying outwards. She might need to be lifted to help her get back on her feet (how else do you lift or move the best part of a 700kg animal without a JCB?), or moved elsewhere to an area such as a straw pen, where she is less likely to slip, and more likely to be able to get back on her feet.

What you see on the videos can be horrific, but sometimes they do need a bit of understanding from a farming background (like the shackles and moving them with JCBs). I don't want to be involved in a bunfight, so please don't flame me for farming. If we all stopped eating meat and dairy, cows, sheep and other animals would become feral vermin. All of the vegetables and some things that vegans eat also grows on a farm, too... and manure is one of the most natural and successful things to nourish crops with.

Yeah. Dairy cows abused on farms that supply milk for Cathedral City. Been in the news fairly recently

Well there’s animal proteins in all electronic devices and some home products and I also believe in modern bank notes (I could be mistaken on that part though) we use so unless you fancy living in a cave you can’t avoid animal proteins so just crack on and enjoy your steak

I would also point out that a meat eating diet actually involves much more soy production than a vegan one- the vast majority of soy grown worldwide is actually used for animal feed for farming meat and dairy. It uses much less and is much more efficient to eat soy directly.

https://www.wwf.org.uk/updates/soy-story

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/soybean-production-and-use