To feel guilted into being vegan??? AIBU?

Most of the worst videos I have seen have been footage where people have gone undercover in slaughterhouses. It's unbearable to watch. There was a video a few years ago of a horse that was badly abused in a slaughterhouse before it's death

There are no good bits about animals being slaughtered in my view -but. We are talking about people being paid to do a job abusing animals in their last moments. When they are already suffering -and I personally applaud anyone that has the courage to go undercover and record footage like that

I remember seeing a photo on Facebook of a slaughterhouse worker grinning with a pigs ear hanging off his hat. I personally don't think all people who work with animals are abusers -but some are and animals do not have protection in their final moments. There are no CCTV cameras in UK slaughterhouses.

As I said in one example, I am aware that there are people who abuse animals- and should not be working with them.

However, those videos are a bit like the media. You only see the bad and most offensive parts. You'll never see the good bits, because that isn't the angle that the videos are going for.

Here you go:

https://www.forksoverknives.com/recipes/

:)

Hey @CradleMable

Self righteous vegan here ... 😉

Please don't beat yourself up about not knowing just how bad things are for farmed animals. I was a veggie for many years before my blinkers came off, blissfully thinking I was doing no harm eating eggs and dairy. Went vegan immediately. I suspect a lot more would if they saw the harsh reality first hand. It's all presented in shiny plastic wrapped forms that bear no resemblance to how it started off ... Little wonder we are so detached ...

It's totally your call, but please ignore posters who say that it means you will be forced to eat processed foods. Vegan processed food is just as unhealthy as meat and dairy based processed food and there's no need to eat either.

It may not be your diet which is causing anaemia. Do you have heavy periods? I was anaemic when I went vegan and didn't get on with iron tablets either. Ironically it actually improved from going vegan as my diet improved - more pulses, dark leafy greens etc. so do sympathise as it was horrible xx

If you do decide to could I suggest you log what you are eating for the first few weeks on cronometer to make sure you are getting enough calories (you tend to feel fuller eating whole foods so new vegans often under eat then blame being vegan for going weak) and vitamins and minerals etc and you can tweak your diet accordingly.

If you have a look at Forks over Knives website they have lots of healthy vegan recipes and there are plenty on internet. If you Google iron rich vegan recipes, I'm sure something will come up. The Game changers movie might provide some ,uplifting inspiration for how it might change your health. More carrot than stick :)

I'd be lying if I said I didn't secretly wish an end to animal farming but I don't think the sanctimonious approach inspires anyone.

Perhaps start with experimenting with some yummy vegan recipes. Once you've got a few you genuinely enjoy it's really not hard, and at worst you'll have added a few nice meals to your repertoire ☺️

Similarly, animals are killed if you walk through a park (insects and alike that are stood on). Humans exist in the world, and have an impact on it.

But just because some consequences are unavoidable does not make unavoidable consequences (whether you avoid them or fully embrace them) a wash.

With the tofu example, its the difference between:

(a) having one field of soy, or

(b) having 20 fields in order to produce soy for animal feed, which is then in-turn used to feed animals, which are slaughtered.

Both yield the same end result in terms of protein.

Its a bit like looking at the "trolley problem", where the trolley isn't going to stop and can only be steered in one of two directions. One direction would result in the trolley striking and killing 1 person, the other direction 20+. By your rationale, both are equally good and valid choices.

I recall reading about cravings and how, as the gut biome adjusts, they stop, but again i'm not disputing the study you've shared, I've justvread an alternative explanation, which I guess I'm more apt to accept.
I also read that 30% humans can't digest milk.
It's not my view that consuming animals is a huge cause of digestive illnesses, it's well documented.

One of the interesting points in the study is the link between taste and metabolism, meaning that your cravings and likes / dislikes will mirror what your body thinks it needs.

So even if, and that is a massive even if, in your view, the cons of foregoing those needed dietary components were an acceptable compromise, they would still be a massive difference in the life experience of someone to whom a vegetarian diet tastes and feels good and someone who feels constantly horrendous and lacking because of it.

i think it would be more from the farm gate and not in super markets but it does exist

But far more animals are killed in the production of animals who will be killed to eat meat.
So whichever way you look at it, eating plants kills fewer animals.

Im just trying to make the point, animals are impacted regardless of what we eat. Theyre killed for food, or to grow food.

I absolutely support anyone's choice with whatever diet best suits their needs and morals.

@Laura95167 what do you think the cow is being fed?
How much more of that feed does it take to make the burger than eating the equivalent plants?
It's all about scale, and the land use needed to produce meat is many more times that of equivalent plant calories. So your vole body count is much higher for meat.

Thanks for this. I mean this with no faeticiousness: i wonder if the documented risk of digestive related diseases is outweighed by the physiological issues outlined here?
It would seem odd that a significant percentage of humans fell into this bracket, given our likeness to herbivourous gorillas, but happy to be challenged on this, will read.

Veganism just impacts other animals...

1 cow makes about 400 McDonald's cheeseburgers. So if you ate a McDs every day for a year you ate 1 cow

If you eat tofu - they kill every mouse, rat, rabbit, squirrel, vole, bird in the field of crop. As well as a variety of insects..

Veganism means you arent eating animal flesh - but plenty were killed to cultivate the crop.

Im not passing judgement on people who choose veganism, but I am saying it also impacts if its just about the animals.

Maybe reduce your meat in take or research ethical meat sources, a lot of farmers do care for their animals and try to give them good lives. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Veganism just impacts other animals...

1 cow makes about 400 McDonald's cheeseburgers. So if you ate a McDs every day for a year you ate 1 cow

If you eat tofu - they kill every mouse, rat, rabbit, squirrel, vole, bird in the field of crop. As well as a variety of insects..

Veganism means you arent eating animal flesh - but plenty were killed to cultivate the crop.

Im not passing judgement on people who choose veganism, but I am saying it also impacts if its just about the animals.

Maybe reduce your meat in take or research ethical meat sources, a lot of farmers do care for their animals and try to give them good lives. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

How much of this milk supplies supermarkets i wonder?
It's a fantasy.

What percentage of the meat reared in the uk is outdoor reared I wonder?
Ooh, about 15%.
But 53% meat is imported and not subject to our welfare standards..my maths isn't good enough... but most animals eaten in the uk have lived a miserable life before being slaughtered.

Only 5% chickens ever see the light of day.
Not quite the gotcha you'd hoped for.

calves must be kept with their mother for at least five weeks before they are weaned
This is false.

If someone wants to eat meat, that's their choice. If they want to limit their meat intake, either by volume or welfare, that's their choice too. The amount of outright falsehoods being peddled as arguments in this thread, though, is beyond comical.

You can also get milk from certain farms where the calve is still on its mum and they just take so much away and lots of farmers now adays use sexed semen so no bull calf's to kill or rear

pig crates am sure are banned in the uk same as veal crates plus you can buy outdoor reared

Yes, it's pretty much impossible to live in the modern world without using things that have some sort of animal part in them. That's why the vegan society says 'vegans avoid animal products wherever practically possible'

The initial studies suggest it's far from marginal.

This is an interest read.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0291305

"In conclusion, our findings add to the existing body of data pointing to the genetic contribution to dietary choices and raise the possibility that lipid metabolism and its role in brain function may play a role in the ability to subsist long-term on a strict vegetarian diet. Further studies are required to determine which of the genes we identified play an important role in choosing a vegetarian diet; what particular variants of those genes underlie the vegetarianism phenotype and the mechanisms by which they contribute to this phenotype. It is tempting to speculate that meat may contain unique lipid components that vegetarians are able to adequately synthesize endogenously, whereas others need to obtain them from a meat-containing diet. A better understanding of the physiologic pathways involved in choosing a vegetarian diet is needed in order to design more effective dietary recommendations and interventions."

It’s not about the old paint argument it’s just being aware that animal derivatives are used in house building and internal decoration, animal derivatives are also used in electrical cable and other essential household items and equipment yes you said you use vegan paint, don’t use uk money but honestly I can probably come to your home and immediately pick out something with animal proteins in it, I really do applaud you for your beliefs and I genuinely do mean that in a non sarcastic way but I also would appreciate you to acknowledge that in modern society it isn’t possible to be without animal proteins, yes sorry I picked out paint as an example but you made a good point of saying you don’t use cash well debit and credit card production contains tallow in its early production

Better life before slaughter I assume.

My house is daubed with the blood of infants. Does that mean I'm no longer vegan?

@UniquePinkSwan how does getting meat from the local farm constitute 'doing your bit'? for whom?