To be fed up that it seems to be expected that female celebs dress risqué while men dont

Do you mean Bianca Censori? I think she's one person who could do with some 'censorship'. Along with her husband. Who apparently has now been un-cancelled. He's wheeling his 12 yo daughter out on stage for clout...

Peacocks vs peahens?
Most male ducks and birds have flashy feathers, females usually dull brown. Male lions have exaggerated manes, females don't

Your argument falls down

I think this stuff, us thinking about what we do collectively, is going to end up being positive. We have to tease out why we do what we do and eliminate aspects that are not required any longer.

I totally agree.
To me it smacks of sheer desperation, anything to get attention at any cost or extreme.
Pathetic that they can’t see it for what it is.

I think if you saw what goes on behind the scenes you'd see that a lot of these young artists do not have as much say as you'd think about clothing choices etc. Britney is a slightly extreme example, but an example nonetheless.

I also have a lot of respect for Pamela Anderson now, however she has such a reputation after years of kowtowing to the whims of male desire that it's hard not to factor that in. She has that leniency now, after decades of being the sexy blonde bimbo. If she hadn't played that role (not just the Baywatch character but the facade she wore) I don't see that she would have gained such 'success'

Funny how the brand that sells best for female artists is one involving a lot of effort and not a lot of clothing.

You could always compare him to Billie Eilish, who generally performs in massive hoodies and baggy basketball shorts.

Or to Missy Elliott, who generally wore baggy tracksuits.

Or to Justin Bieber, who did his last award show performance literally just in his boxers.

Or to Usher, who I don't recall ever wearing a shirt live.

All of these pop stars, including Sheeran, are making a tremendous amount of effort to remain on brand. He is selling himself as a Mr Normal everyman - that is his image.

Exactly.

But not in humans so what’s your point

I don't think it's empowering - I think it's going along with their industires and media expectations to garner attention to sell their careers or to sell product made.

The stylists and designers present them with choices - but what those choices are will be influenced by expectations - but they do have some choice.

I think recently though the red carpets have been very poor - more dresses wearing women and rapidly dimishing shock value than actually dressing some very beautiful women to look their best. A few celbs manage to have fun, be revealing to a point or not and look good.

I don't think the film or music industry are known for being great for giving equal opportunties to women so expect there are bigger battles to be fought and it's easier to go along with expectations to an extent.

Ed Sheeran is wearing a jumper - he is not expected to make any effort in his dress, just show up with his guitar and sing. Not the same for Taylor. I'm not saying she's inappropriately dressed. But she's not in jeans and a hoodie, is she?

It really doesn't, she's wearing a perfectly modest outfit, nothing is on show.

When my dd was four the tv was on in the background and she suddenly turned to me and asked “Why do women on the tv wear hardly any clothes and men wear lots?”
Since then I can’t stop noticing it. I had never really thought about it objectively before.
I just said That’s a good question. It’s very silly isn’t it.
I couldn’t think of what else to say.

They wear what they want to wear, and you wear what you want to wear. They decide what they want to "cover up" and you do the same. They choose their outfits and male celebs choose their outfits. See how it works?

He's not wrong! Always a great source of wisdom, is Rab.

It’s not expected at all. They are all choosing to dress how they wish. Don’t like it? Don’t look 🤷‍♀️

She had her implants taken out in 1999. My point is that she used to go along with it (looking sexy) in fact used it to her advantage big time, but now she has made a choice to go totally against the expectations people have of her, and I really respect her for that. I bet there aren't any other actresses (or actors!) who look totally natural on the red carpet. And she's stopped showing loads of flesh. On Graham Norton she was covered up to her neck.

I asked Rab C Nesbitt for his thoughts, I quote;
"See these celebrities? Paradeen' around in their designer rags, showin' off every inch of flesh? It's pathetic, so it is! Call that fashion? It’s just nakedness without the decency of a good, honest string vest! At least my string vest is functional, let’s the nipples breathe in the Govan rain. These posers are just lookin' for attention!"

Yup.
If only men would strip off and oil up, they could rule the world.

Oh, wait...

I make the same point about female athletes too. They always seem to wear the skimpiest shorts imaginable and crop tops so they’re essentially wearing underwear. Men do not do the same thing, ever.

Indeed. Same as prostitution which is also apparently “empowering”. So why don’t men do it?

This illustrates the contrast in expectations well I think!

Forgot to add - the Epsten files / the way Big Business has 'taught' us to think / buy what benefits them / line their pockets / follow trends that are stupid - to what extent are we sheep and doing ourselves down? But then again I am 51 now and not clear on whether young women shave their armpits / look like children to attract grown males etc. All I know is, a massive rethink of what and how I buy / where my attention / power goes is afoot for me....

I think this is an interesting point, but a very hot potato at the same time.

I'm a lifelong feminist, but I think we as women have yet to really have the discussion....because it is such a hot potato! And so many things are factored in -

In the olden days we relied on men for food and survival, so the easiest way to compete for men was to be visually attractive. Now we still show our bits but we don't need to, and we call it 'choice/freedom.' But if men showed the same (obvious bollocks on show) we would be mortified and not know where to look.

As I age, my body is still lush because I keep it so, but I am very careful of how much I show and I do not want to make people uncomfortable. I do feel uncomfortable when I see skirts showing lower bum cheeks etc. Women do not deserve SA when they dress like that because it happens to babies in nappies so it is not what we wear, but at the same time, I would not like creepy men getting off on young women in revealing clothes after night clubs.

I think it is a discussion we really need to have, but then again I am older now and have had plenty of time to think through the consequences of actions.