To absolutely loathe the increase in smear campaigns against businesses because of the halal meat debate?

Either way, it would make more sense to focus on kosher meat which is never stunned and never labelled when on the main market.

‘Very probably’.

There is also the distinction between full stun and recoverable stun.

recoverable stun means that the animal comes round from the stun to ‘hear the prayer’- otherwise, what’s the point…. But they’ve still be ‘stunned’!

…

It was a loaded letter. But aside from that if people were not quick to accuse with bigotry more probably would just say I’m not religious, I’m not comfortable with those methods so I’ll choose another product.

Animal welfare will still be relevant for some. It’s likely a mix between the two.

Are you ok with clear labelling in schools and other public outlets?

That letter was calling for labelling so people can make an informed choice.

And many people on this thread are being intolerant. Case in point this one:

It's only acceptable halal when they cut their throats and then 'embed' the meat with prayers, and these prayers are not exactly loving or nice... they call for the killing of other people. And you eat that energy. The entire practice is gross and barbaric.

The letter you quoted used the word intolerance. That and bigotry is what is incorrect here.

People can always choose to avoid religious ritual without those accusations. Make it clear and make it a choice without censure.

Those are the basic facts. Any unlabelled halal meat in supermarkets has very probably been stunned.

Kosher meat is never stunned but offcuts from kosher slaughtered animals are sold as general meat on the main market.

Can you point to where I’ve argued against labelling or people’s right to choose?

It’s pretty simple. I haven’t.

But that also doesn’t mean that people who bleat about halal being evil and tell blatant lies that the prayer says to kill people whilst slaughtering animals or that Muslims want the animals to suffer will get a free pass.

They will be pulled up for their bullshit. Every time.

It’s pretty simple. When people say no to communion it should be the same for no to halal.

Or if a parent says no to halal at school.

No accusations of bigotry or intolerance. No it’s not my religion and I don’t want to buy, eat, participate is always enough.

This is really weird. You were the one who asked me about Holy Communion and kept haranguing me with so many questions about the one time I was invited to participate that I had to ask you why you’re giving me the third degree.

I did you the courtesy of answering your questions and you throw it back in my face by telling me I’m giving it more airtime than Christians.

You really don’t see how bizarre that is? All that just makes me think I need to ignore your questions in future.

I was thinking the same for you. I don’t care if you turn up or not, you’re giving it more airtime than someone who is actually part of the faith. Enjoy going or don’t.

Most can see communion isn’t taken by people outside the faith, and halal should be on the same level. Clear information no problem nor ‘bigot’ if people say no I’m not religious I don’t want that.

Yes, it should be the halal and kosher debate.

The reason why people focus on halal is because the kosher industry is small while the halal industry is much bigger and growing and there's concern about whether it crosses into general meat consumption without people knowing. This is happening in a secondary school near me, so I can imagine it happens in other places too.

You were the one who brought up Holy Communion! 🤣

Why did you bring it up if it’s not an argument?

No really if you want to go to mass and take communion even though the words mean nothing at all to you go for it

This has really got under your skin for some reason. Thanks for your permission, I shall henceforth devote all my future Sundays to taking communion.

They cut their throats with a knife and make them suffer for a long time,

Bullshit. The animal's throat must be cut by a sharp knife severing the carotid artery, jugular vein and windpipe in a single swipe.

It's only acceptable halal when they cut their throats and then 'embed' the meat with prayers, and these prayers are not exactly loving or nice... they call for the killing of other people. And you eat that energy. The entire practice is gross and barbaric.

Bullshit. here is the prayer below. What part of this calls for the killing of people? You are so full of hate and prejudice you can’t even post dress up your lies anymore.

“In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful".

That’s it. No calls for killing of people. This is what people mean by the bleating.

‘Most’ and ‘likely’ are doing heavy lifting here.

Why don’t you find out the facts before arguing with everyone

No really if you want to go to mass and take communion even though the words mean nothing at all to you go for it.

I don’t think it’s common that many do and it’s not an argument to make people accept the halal ritual for meat.

It’s not a counter argument, I was merely answering your question: “Do you think it acceptable to have different sets of laws based on religion?” - where it seemed you implied that there should be no laws at all based on religious grounds.

I did not create this thread to talk about which religion, or no religion is superior or more morally “correct”.

Of course we should move towards a better standard of welfare for animals but we simply cannot pin it down to Halal or Kosher methods alone. If someone actively chooses to pick up £2 chicken breasts from their supermarket shelf (which I suspect is majority of the country since the shelves are filled to the brim with this product - you know supply and demand), then I don’t believe in the same breath they can send emails demanding to know if they’re Halal or not citing animal welfare as being the motivator here. Then screenshotting responses and plastering all over Facebook with the caption “80% of supermarket meat is Halal” and it’s awful for animal welfare. Your chickens have never seen daylight and probably never waddled freely but you’re concerned that it may not have been stunned?

Why would I be concerned for you? I think it’s strange someone would take a wafer blessed as the body of Christ for the reasons you say. But go for it if that’s your thing.

You were the one rather patronisingly telling me ‘If you go to mass and people stand up for communion just stay sitting. It’s fine.’

I didn’t ask for your opinion on what’s fine so maybe you were concerned about me becoming Christian against my will.

It’s not ‘my thing’, what a strange attitude. I’ve also had langar at a Sikh temple, are you concerned about me becoming accidentally Sikh too?

It still doesn’t change the fact most people don’t do that. And opting out is fine. No one gets called bigot or intolerant as they do when opting out of halal.

MrsB has repeatedly explained why people get called intolerant for bleating on about halal whilst ignoring the low standard of care of animals in abattoirs , and it’s got nothing to do with opting out of halal. No one has issues with that. Opting out is fine.

OK, you are free to make your own choices. But presumably that means you would be fine eating the majority of halal meat which is stunned?

If you find that wild, you are deeply uninformed what halal actually is. I explain exactly what it is. And perhaps, if you had even a small ounce of humanity, you can understand why people oppose halal, rather than your ignorant and selfish perspective on it.

So why do people call it the "halal meat debate" when:

A) most halal meat is stunned
B) meaning the unlabelled halal meat on the market has likely been stunned
C) kosher meat is not ever stunned and routinely unlabelled.

Why isnt it the stunned meat debate? Or the halal and kosher debate?

Opposing extreme animal abuse can hardly constitute smearing. It's plain unethical. They cut their throats with a knife and make them suffer for a long time, bleeding to death. That's the only way it's accepted to be halal. No different than those ISIS videos of human hostages where they did exactly the same. And you think opposing the sale of this kind of product is 'smear campaigning'?

Besides, halal meat has to follow specific protocols. It's only acceptable halal when they cut their throats and then 'embed' the meat with prayers, and these prayers are not exactly loving or nice... they call for the killing of other people. And you eat that energy. The entire practice is gross and barbaric.

And you eat that energy.

This is the wildest reply of all.