To absolutely loathe the increase in smear campaigns against businesses because of the halal meat debate?

Well, clearly not.

Anyone who has specific dietary requirements doesn't have the luxury of being blissfully oblivious - they will need to proactively check.

Isn't this just common sense?

Why aren’t you opposed to cruel ritual slaughter?

People seem far more outraged about halal than kosher food. Funny that...

Both reasons are valid.

Well, yes, I've been a vegetarian for almost 40 years too. I'm not a fan of slaughtering animals in a cruel way either, and I agree it's unnecessary. However, I am also against the cruelty involved in factory farming and I don't find that necessary either.

In addition, as a vegetarian and not a vegan, I'm aware of the tremendous cruelty involved in the dairy industry. I'm not ready to give up milk just yet, but i recognise that it would be hypocritical of me as a non-vegan to start lecturing others on what type of animal cruelty is tolerable and what type is intolerable.

Some do it through accusations of bigotry and intolerance as below. Rather than accepting it and saying ok.

However since everyone seems to want clear halal labelling and options for everyone including those who wish to avoid it, in schools and hospitals too then great perhaps all agree.

That isn't what people are saying. People can choose to eat, or avoid eating, whatever they like. I don't eat halal meat because I'm vegetarian. That doesn't make me a bigot.

The issue is with people claiming to avoid halal because of animal welfare reasons when they are quite happy to eat other mass produced meat without any concerns about animal welfare. This is clearly disingenuous, and it's therefore reasonable to question people's motivations.

Who is stopping anyone from opting out?

Plenty are saying people are bigoted or intolerant if they don’t want to eat, buy halal or have it as the only option in schools. That’s the problem.

If that’s changed and people accept a no without that in return then great.

So blissfully oblivious wouldn't cut it in that scenario.

I'm not missing that point at all, I'm responding to a hypothetical scenario put forward by a pp. I recognised that the scenario was flawed for precisely the reasons that you have outlined, I was trying to respond to the pp's question in good faith.

I don't understand why people keep putting forward strawman arguments about people being forced to eat halal meat against their will. Nobody is arguing that people should have to eat it if they don't want to, and nobody is arguing that it shouldn't be labelled.

I asked about schools. I agree with @NoisyViewereveryone should give consent before consuming food connected to religious rituals. No they shouldn’t happily eat anything just because they are unaware.

It is always ok for people to choose to opt out of religious ritual and practise. And it should be made clear so they can decide. Or parents for them if too young.

But the point your missing is your daughter wouldn’t be given a blessed piece of bread because as an atheist and someone who hasn’t taken their first communion they’d only get it fraudulently by lying they have been. This would never be inflicted on her knowingly .

To suggest it doesn’t matter anyway is to be wilfully ignorant about others consent into participating in a religious practice. They may not want their food blessed by a pray of a religion they don’t follow if they’re atheist or not. Some people maybe as vehemently anti religion that they wish to be no part of any religious practices by eating that blessed meat unwittingly they’re being made to. Their beliefs are not any less valid just because they didn’t witness fhe ritual doesn’t mean it’s ok. They should label the meat and advertise it.

Well, I presume that Holy Communion wafers have special significance to Christians.

And likewise, I presume that halal meat has special significance to Muslims.

As far as I'm concerned, as an atheist, they are just wafers and meat with no significance at all, hence I wouldn't have any objections to eating them (if I actually ate meat, which I don't).

It’s not a counter argument, I was merely answering your question: “Do you think it acceptable to have different sets of laws based on religion?” - where it seemed you implied that there should be no laws at all based on religious grounds.

I did not create this thread to talk about which religion, or no religion is superior or more morally “correct”.

Of course we should move towards a better standard of welfare for animals but we simply cannot pin it down to Halal or Kosher methods alone. If someone actively chooses to pick up £2 chicken breasts from their supermarket shelf (which I suspect is majority of the country since the shelves are filled to the brim with this product - you know supply and demand), then I don’t believe in the same breath they can send emails demanding to know if they’re Halal or not citing animal welfare as being the motivator here. Then screenshotting responses and plastering all over Facebook with the caption “80% of supermarket meat is Halal” and it’s awful for animal welfare. Your chickens have never seen daylight and probably never waddled freely but you’re concerned that it may not have been stunned?

I would expect Muslim parents - and any other parents of children with specific dietary requirements- to proactively seek out information about the food that their children are being fed. I wouldn't advise anyone to make assumptions.

Your use of special is interesting here. Would you say the same re halal meat being special?

On the actual communion if schools regularly gave dc blessed wafers I’d be happy to say no thanks. And that should be an option. Same with halal meat.

As an atheist, I wouldn't have been remotely bothered if someone had given my dd a special wafer that had been prayed over. As far as I'm concerned, it is just a wafer?

If they had made my dd participate in a wider religious ritual around the giving of the wafer, then I would not have been happy with that, unless it was a one-off educational experience, in which case it would have been fine.

Are children eating halal meat in schools being asked to take part in wider Islamic rituals around the consumption of that meat? Or are they simply eating their lunch, blissfully oblivious?

Would it be OK then, by your logic, to not inform Muslims that the meat they were eating for their lunch was not halal? They would simply be eating their lunch blissfully oblivious?

As an atheist, I wouldn't have been remotely bothered if someone had given my dd a special wafer that had been prayed over. As far as I'm concerned, it is just a wafer?

If they had made my dd participate in a wider religious ritual around the giving of the wafer, then I would not have been happy with that, unless it was a one-off educational experience, in which case it would have been fine.

Are children eating halal meat in schools being asked to take part in wider Islamic rituals around the consumption of that meat? Or are they simply eating their lunch, blissfully oblivious?

I didn’t say you directly, I don’t know if you missed the line where I started talking about a group of people who don’t choose higher welfare produce and this was clearly a continuation of that trail of thought?

Here’s the problem - I started a thread about people bombarding businesses with 1 star reviews because they may or may not serve halal meat. I did not start yet another thread on whether people think Halal or Kosher meat is ok. But posters such as yourself decide to skip the question and derail and proudly announce that you yourself choose higher welfare produce.

Well let me make this clear, if you do your due diligence and overall actively choose your produce for genuine welfare reasons then I respect you and your choices, because they are genuine and you’re looking to make an industry wide change. But for those who still choose to overlook pick the worst meat available and make it end to end all about Halal, then I cannot believe for one second that welfare is the motivator for their opposition.

As an atheist, I wouldn't have been remotely bothered if someone had given my dd a special wafer that had been prayed over. As far as I'm concerned, it is just a wafer?

If they had made my dd participate in a wider religious ritual around the giving of the wafer, then I would not have been happy with that, unless it was a one-off educational experience, in which case it would have been fine.

Are children eating halal meat in schools being asked to take part in wider Islamic rituals around the consumption of that meat? Or are they simply eating their lunch, blissfully oblivious?