To absolutely loathe the increase in smear campaigns against businesses because of the halal meat debate?

Of course I don't know, that isn't what I said.

What I said was that the people who do care about animal welfare are not in any danger of accidentally eating halal meat against their will, because they will have done their own due diligence on the provenance of the meat before eating it anyway.

Here you seem to be saying choosing meat carefully means avoiding halal too.

It is not a good a standard as other welfare for meat, another agreement.

How do you know what posters are eating.
The vast majority here haven't said

As I've said, I also think people should be about to make informed choices, and I support comprehensive labelling in order to facilitate this.

My issue is not with people making their own choices. My issue is with people who are claiming to care about animal welfare in order to further a particular agenda that actually has nothing to do with animals, but only applying that concern with regard to halal meat and not all other types of meat/dairy etc.

If people are eating mass produced meat, then it is self evident that they don't particularly care about other forms of a animal cruelty in the meat industry - if they did, they would not eat mass produced meat and there would be no danger of them eating halal meat without knowing about it, because they would either have stopped eating meat altogether or they would at the very least ensure that they knew about the provenance of their meat, how it was raised, how it was killed etc.

Like you I wouldn’t object to all meals being vegan
but I respect choice

as long as everyone knows exactly what they are choosing

Your last paragraph is based on your assumption that posters don’t care about other forms of animal cruelty in the meat industry

I don’t see an overwhelming majority of people confirming that statement here

and as such there is absolutely no reason to make that assumption at all.

The RSPCA also expresses concern about all intensively farmed meat, so do you think that should be off the menu in schools as well.

Because people can separate out the practises. I can look at how an animal is treated when alive or when killed and choose which is best.

The process for halal below doesn’t meet that on two counts. How it’s killed and the ritual around it.

I might spend more on some meat having read what they do to get it to the table, knowing it died yes. But also that it was a better life and quick death, it’s about as good as it gets without avoiding meat altogether.

I do eat dairy, and as such, I fully recognise that I'm not in a position to lecture anyone on animal welfare. Because I'm guilty of consuming products that are not supportive of animal welfare at all.

I became vegetarian nearly 40 years ago because I stayed on a farm and witnessed the reality of meat production. At the time, the decision was made for ethical reasons, but knowing what I know now, I recognise that it isn't really an ethically defensible position at all. So I don't pretend that it is one. I'm vegetarian out of habit, primarily, and because the idea of meat no longer appeals to me.

I'm not dictating what choices other people make about what they eat. I'm not judging anyone for eating any kind of meat because I don't consider that I'm in a morally superior position to be able to do so. My own decision to carry on eating dairy would make it deeply hypocritical for me to criticise people for eating meat.

I'm merely asking people not to pretend that they care about animal welfare if their care only extends to this one issue while ignoring the many other types of animal cruelty involved in the meat and dairy industries.

Yes exactly. You even get posts on dc being blissfully unaware for halal alone. Presumably they wouldn’t want the same approach for meat to vegetarians or a type of meat to religious people who don’t eat it.

When has blissfully unaware been something to push

Agree

lets treat everyone equally and so tell everyone nothing 😳
….
that’s how some people in this country are currently being treated and an excellent point

just because one or a few people on this thread think it’s not about animal welfare
is meaningless.
There’s a whole world of opinion out there and everyones reasons are valid whether you believe that or not.

There’s a whole majority of opinion including the RSPCA and animal charities that site
welfare
as the concern

Not bloody religion

and the majority on here also have welfare concerns

You said you ate dairy knowing it was cruel in the pp.

Apply that logic to people who choose to avoid halal for both reasons. You haven’t gone vegan presumably because you like dairy. Everyone isn’t going to avoid all meat because they want to eat it, but will choose the type.

Of course animals die but quickly is better and I don’t subscribe to the ritual below.

Where did I say I don't give a shit about it throughout its whole life?
And how is it double standards? The fact that the animals due for halal slaughter usually come from the same farms as regular animals due for more humane slaughter makes that point of yours point invalid 😂
Still the lesser of 2 evils.

Are people allowed to object to battery hens if they eat free-range (but not organic or vegan?).

Of course anyone can pick or choose what they eat.

To most of us here, a halal cow is no different to a non-halal cow, but we don’t take peoples choice away.

So you keep saying. You haven't actually managed to articulate why you think other forms of animal cruelty are acceptable though.

I think it’s you who is focusing incorrectly on that.

I agree with @Poetnojoand others who have pointed out it is both.

But you don't give a shit about how it's treated during its life?

If you are eating mass produced meat, it is self evident that animal welfare is not a significant priority for you. And that's fine, I'm not judging what anyone eats.

I am merely judging the blatant double standards.

It is actually both. I would prefer my meat to be killed as quickly and painlessly as possible.
Also I would prefer is sharia law is not being practiced or imposed in Britain, especially on non Muslims.

You can avoid it based on whatever you like. But if you are choosing to focus on one particular type of animal cruelty while turning a blind eye towards all other types of animal cruelty, then it's inevitable that people might question your motivations.

No that is a stand alone description and I’ll avoid it based on that.

@NoisyViewerhas said more about what happens and how quickly in other processes and if that is described in another way I’ll assess on that separately.

I do pay more generally if I think it helps whether it’s eggs or other.

About 50% of animals slaughtered for kosher meat ends up on our shelves in the main market. Unlabelled
Thats half of the meat rejected
and half of the animals suffering needlessly

This from farmers weekly 2022

labelling needed as kosher mereaches non-kosher markets
Jonathan Riley17 August 2022
© Tim Scrivener

More than half of all non-stunned, kosher-slaughtered cattle are rejected by Jewish authorities and sold to the wider public instead, Defra figures show.

Kosher slaughter, under traditional Jewish Shechita laws, dictates that animals must not be stunned before they are killed.

This is allowed under an exemption to welfare legislation which otherwise requires all animals to be stunned before slaughter to minimise suffering.

The exemption for both Muslim halal meat and Jewish Shechita is caveated by additional guidance on religious slaughter, which states meat from animals slaughtered without stunning should be intended for consumption by Jews or Muslims.

See also: Pressure mounts to end non-stun sheep slaughter

But Defra’s latest report, based on a Food Standards Agency survey of abattoirs, showed that 51% of cattle and 43% of sheep slaughtered for kosher markets, were rejected in 2021-22.

The rejected meat was then sold as halal or to the wider public.

The figures collated in March 2022 also reveal a marked increase in rejection levels compared with the previous survey in 2018, when just 15% of cattle and 23% of sheep which had been slaughtered while conscious, were sold on to wider public markets.

Post-slaughter checks
A senior official in the meat processing sector suggested post-slaughter checks in the UK were stringent and failure was highly likely.

A single bruise in the meat, lightly damaged tendons or bones, and signs of abnormality in the organs, will result in the carcass being rejected as kosher.

The official, who asked not to be identified, also pointed out that Shechita law forbids the consumption of any hindquarter cuts.

“That means half the meat from animals which do meet Shechita rules is discarded by the kosher sector,” he explained.

“But it is still deemed to be fit for wider consumption and sold to buyers, largely in the food-service sector,” the official claimed.

He estimated that as little as a quarter of the meat from Shechita slaughtered cattle was sold for the intended kosher market.

Welfare concern
The RSPCA,
Compassion in World Farming and the British Veterinary Association all support an end to non-stun slaughter, to improve animal welfare at the time of death.

The Defra figures have also sparked concern from the National Secular Society which campaigns for the separation of church and state.
The society’s head of campaigns, Megan Manson, said: “It is both alarming and disturbing to think that more than half of all cattle, and more than 40% of sheep that undergo Shechita slaughter may not even end up in the kosher market.
“It means these animals endured a cruel death for absolutely no reason.”
Ms Manson added: “To make matters worse, that meat is likely to have been sold to the unwitting general public.

“The law is clear, that meat from animals killed under the religious exemption is supposed to be intended for religious communities in the UK.

“A business model that relies upon such meat being sold onto the general market, unlabelled, is both ethically and legally dubious.”

Labelling
The National Secular Society is therefore calling for mandatory labelling of meat from non-stunned slaughter.
In 2021, a public opinion poll found 70% of UK consumers thought food produced from religious non-stun slaughter methods should be clearly labelled, Ms Manson

The FSA Slaughter Sector Survey, England and Wales
Carried out by Official Veterinarians between 7-13 March 2022 the survey (PDF) took a snapshot of abattoir activities and throughput for the Food Standards Agency, Defra and the Welsh Government.
Across 161 red meat slaughterhouses, it discovered that

3,375cattle were not stunned
and

50,371 sheep were not stunned

primarily for the halal market.

All halal non-stunned animals were accepted, but Shechita rejections accounted for 51% of cattle (142 out of 276), and 43% of sheep 43% (223 out of 520).

It is only valid if you also choose to avoid all other mass produced meat for similar reasons.

So what level of animal cruelty do you find acceptable?