To absolutely loathe the increase in smear campaigns against businesses because of the halal meat debate?

You still haven't engaged with the point that I have repeatedly made, you just keep responding to strawmen of your own making. I'm not sure if it is your comprehension skills that are the problem or whether this is just your usual way of dealing with something when you know your argument doesn't really stack up, but I've noticed the same pattern in a lot of threads.

To what?

I'm also vegetarian. I believe you shouldn't live a life that requires other people to do jobs that you wouldn't. I would happily keep chickens and goats for milk/cheese. So I can eat dairy.

Is that dream Disney cottage the reality for most dairy and egg production? No, not at all. But I buy the most ethical dairy and eggs available. So it's a start, and supports better farming practices.

The perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good. The good shouldn't be the enemy of small in scope, rather dull, incremental improvements that over time will radically change things for the better.

We have a legal requirement for all UK abattoirs to pre-stun. This is based on the best available evidence that it offers better (meaning less terrible) animal welfare.

It is outrageous that there is a religious exemption to this. This should never have been permitted.

It's not just about animal welfare. It's also about the fundamental principle that the UK is a secular nation, with one law for all. And we are, in practice, functionally secular.

(But we really should rid ourselves of the archaic 26 bishops within the 842 peers in the House of Lords. On the upside, any replacements have to be women bishops.)

I do eat dairy, and as such, I fully recognise that I'm not in a position to lecture anyone on animal welfare. Because I'm guilty of consuming products that are not supportive of animal welfare at all.

I became vegetarian nearly 40 years ago because I stayed on a farm and witnessed the reality of meat production. At the time, the decision was made for ethical reasons, but knowing what I know now, I recognise that it isn't really an ethically defensible position at all. So I don't pretend that it is one. I'm vegetarian out of habit, primarily, and because the idea of meat no longer appeals to me.

I'm not dictating what choices other people make about what they eat. I'm not judging anyone for eating any kind of meat because I don't consider that I'm in a morally superior position to be able to do so. My own decision to carry on eating dairy would make it deeply hypocritical for me to criticise people for eating meat.

I'm merely asking people not to pretend that they care about animal welfare if their care only extends to this one issue while ignoring the many other types of animal cruelty involved in the meat and dairy industries.

So people who are avoiding halal and kosher because of the stunning issue may still be eating unstunned meat if they are consuming mass produced meat without knowing its provenance.

You're just sidestepping now. I understand that you haven't really got an answer.

This spud bros thing is hilarious. I think they’re arseholes because they charged £15 for a potato at Silverstone, but the people complaining that a potato is halal are hysterical.

I don’t even know why there’s a disagreement since everyone wants labelling for halal meat.

Mostly I think some have got it wrong with the disingenuous and bigoted accusations. If they’re dropped then it’s all good.

You're not engaging with my point, because you're still on about labelling. Which I have repeatedly said that I support.

As for people doing the research, for someone who genuinely cares about animal welfare, it wouldn't be unnecessary. But I agree that it could be time consuming, hence my support for comprehensive labelling to make things easier.

But none of that addresses my previous points.

Agree and Easternstandard it’s also worth noting,
having tried to do this myself with some Asda products, no matter how high you go with a business they rarely come back with a definitive answer because they don’t know it themselves

No but an animal is slaughtered accor8dng to kosher rules and then as it is the hind legs or whatever, they are sold on the main meat market and never labelled as kosher as it is not kosher by Jewish standards. It has just been killed in a way that means the kosher parts can be consumed by Jewish people.

The rest is sold to us as meat.

Because your point isn’t based in fact

I am engaging with your points.

I’ll put it another way to see if you can accept what people are saying.

If there was an item of food that looked exactly the same and one was vegetarian and one was meat would you want to research every outlet and item to make sure you got the right version, or would you just say make a label, make it clear.

And ik you’re going to say you want labels but then go on about people researching province. It’s time consuming and unnecessary if there’s a label, that’s the point of clear information.

It’s frequency too. I’m not sure kosher is as prevalent in outlets including public ones such as schools.

I am engaging with your points.

I’ll put it another way to see if you can accept what people are saying.

If there was an item of food that looked exactly the same and one was vegetarian and one was meat would you want to research every outlet and item to make sure you got the right version, or would you just say make a label, make it clear.

And ik you’re going to say you want labels but then go on about people researching province. It’s time consuming and unnecessary if there’s a label, that’s the point of clear information.

I've explained my point repeatedly, but you have just created strawmen and declined to engage with it.

Yes, we agree on labelling. It's getting quite tiresome to go around in circles about the rest.

I agree, because you are all studiously refusing to engage with my point.

Exactly

going round and round in circles here.

Why the subterfuge, label it as halal and people can see quickly whether to avoid.

And yes you’ve said you want labelling so what’s there to disagree on? No one is bigoted, or disingenuous or whatever else is accused of them. They just want a quick easy way to know what a product is.

Why the subterfuge, label it as halal and people can see quickly whether to avoid.

And yes you’ve said you want labelling so what’s there to disagree on? No one is bigoted, or disingenuous or whatever else is accused of them. They just want a quick easy way to know what a product is.

Which is impossible isn’t it because as you’ve seen on this thread food isn’t labelled

That’s the point !

It’s also worth noting that whilst some people continue to shame others for even asking the question ( or expressing their views)
they won’t.

Of course I don't know, that isn't what I said.

What I said was that the people who do care about animal welfare are not in any danger of accidentally eating halal meat against their will, because they will have done their own due diligence on the provenance of the meat before eating it anyway.

Here you seem to be saying choosing meat carefully means avoiding halal too.

It is not a good a standard as other welfare for meat, another agreement.

Of course I don't know, that isn't what I said.

What I said was that the people who do care about animal welfare are not in any danger of accidentally eating halal meat against their will, because they will have done their own due diligence on the provenance of the meat before eating it anyway.

As I've said, I also think people should be about to make informed choices, and I support comprehensive labelling in order to facilitate this.

My issue is not with people making their own choices. My issue is with people who are claiming to care about animal welfare in order to further a particular agenda that actually has nothing to do with animals, but only applying that concern with regard to halal meat and not all other types of meat/dairy etc.