To absolutely loathe the increase in smear campaigns against businesses because of the halal meat debate?

I meant you're incorrect that they're semi-conscious, and use a totally different stun method. Apologies for any lack of clarity there.

Personally I think welfare laws should be the same for all slaughter and no religious exemptions exist from requirements to pre-stun meat. But as long as they do, I think we should talk about them accurately.

Well I am clearly not going to agree with that, as I want it to be illegal to slaughter any animal without it being stunned first. Therefore labelling is irrelevant.

About 90% of halal meat eaten in the UK is stunned. It becomes halal because they play a soundtrack of an imam reading a blessing during the slaughter process. If you eat ready meals or pre prepared meat products, you have probably eaten it without knowing. For regular meat eaters there should be no additional welfare concerns.

Around 6% of UK abattoirs have a special exemption licence for non stun slaughter. It is more heavily regulated and it only covers the slaughter of sheep. Other non stun halal meat such as chicken is usually imported. It is normally more expensive and sought after, so it is unlikely to be getting into the general meat supply.

It is a shame that some people only care about where their food comes from and the welfare of the animals they eat in this context.

Some meat with terrible welfare standards is being imported because UK border checks are inadequate. Pre Brexit there was a good system which Brexit dismantled.

If some of you paid more attention to policing the goods coming in rather than people, and asked more questions about where your meat comes from, perhaps British farmers would not be struggling so much to make a fair living.

The animal must be able to regain consciousness and life as opposed to the British standard. So I’m not ‘incorrect’ it’s about interpretation. I’d say a lot of brits are being led up the garden path when they think both stun options are the same.

Really ? I didn’t even realise a prayer was said tbh. My understanding was always that it was the method of slaughter.

I disagree, given the vast majority of halal meet is stunned before slaughter.

If the question is about consumer choice and clarity in labelling, the correct response would be to label meat as stunned before slaughter/not pre-stunned, which would give consumers accurate information.

Labelling as halal/non-halal does not provide the same clarity.

This ⬆️. Where I live, it's very clear what meat is halal, it always seems to be labelled, as do restaurants and takeaways which serve it. It's easy to avoid.
We have a very small Jewish community, so there isn't the same amount/availability of kosher meat.
Either way, it's surely easy to check labels?

I stopped eating meat due to animal welfare concerns, both slaughter and animal husbandry. I now don't eat it as I don't want an animal that wants to live to be killed for my food.

I don't think there should be any exemption to the existing animal welfare laws we have. That makes a mockery of them.

It is a legal requirement for animals to be stunned before slaughter in the UK

https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/slaughter/religiousslaughter#:~:text=Current%20UK%20law%20requires%20animals,to%20stun%20animals%20before%20slaughter.

This is incorrect. The animal is not conscious, the requirement is for it to be a reversible stun rather than irreversible which means the animal has to be able to regain consciousness, not that it's semi-conscious. They therefore use electrical stun (which is also allowed for non-religious slaughter) rather than eg captive bolt gun or gas.

I would agree with this. It's also disconcerting to have the "but - kosher!" put in for the extra layer of prejudice.

I am curious. Do have welfare concerns about the rest of the meat production system? Or is it just the method of slaughter that bothers you?

Stunning is not an optional extra under our law for non-religious meat, due to animal welfare concerns

The UK government doesn't have a legal requirement to ensure all animals are stunned before slaughter.

Around 88% of animals slaughtered in the UK for Halal are stunned first.

All animals slaughtered under the Shechita (for Kosher) are non-stunned.

I haven’t seen any of this but food labelling generally goes for clarity of information as a good thing, extend the labelling and people who want halal meat can buy it.

No. Its because halal meat is not required to be stunned.

Every animal slaughtered (outside of those under religious exemption) is required to be stunned in the UK.

So the debate is around religiously slaughtered animals compared to other animals.

It’s a reversible stun not irreversible as British standard. This is so the animal is conscious enough to hear the prayer. So it’s not as ‘pain free’ as British standards.

Where does it say that?

SpudBros have a keen eye for PR and the number of people breaking their fast on the flag market in Preston is small. The number of people lining their stomachs to continue drinking is much, much larger.
Two things can be true at once: it’s nice thing to offer dates and water during Ramadan and a continuation of their cynical self promotion. They certainly know their online audience of edgelord racists (ahh, the joys of a Reform council!) would make a huge deal about this and do most of the work for them in spreading the word that you can get an overpriced potato at 11pm in Preston.

I'm not personally bothered whether the meat I eat is Halal or not (I'm much more bothered about the conditions the animal lived in).

But people have the right to know where their food came from and how it died, and to make purchasing choices based on this information.

Not wanting to eat Halal or Kosher meat is completely valid regardless of whether someone's issue is with beliefs about animal welfare or religion (whilst I couldn't care less if someone of any religion has prayed over my food, I can imagine this could be uncomfortable for someone with strong religious beliefs themselves).

Halal meat is common because there's a demand for it and it makes good business sense to produce and sell it... as long as most non Muslims will buy it too.

For people who do not want to eat Halal meat, their best course of action is to make their position clear to shops and restaurants, and to use their purchase power to buy non Halal meat. This isn't racist, it's how you improve the odds of finding food you are willing to eat in shops and restaurants.

Veggie and Vegan options aren't widely available because shops and restaurants are kind and want to be inclusive, they exist because there's a market for it.

It's not a case of caring v not caring. If you asked 100 people who didn't know probably all of them would say the difference between halal and not halal is because a prayer is uttered at the time of slaughter.

I'm not even convinced that most Muslims understand what halal slaughter involves.

It's also unreasonable to talking about "halal" slaughter methods without differentiating between pre-stunned (the majority of halal meat in the UK) and non-stunned, if claiming to care on welfare grounds.

What about the other way round? There is a sikh Indian restaurant owner in Hammersmith who is continuously being harassed because his restaurant does not serve halal meat.
Daily he has people outside his restaurant shouting at him, throwing eggs etc

There’s the real discussion, in which of course it is fair that the information be made clear, and then there is the SM misinformation propaganda.

It is driven by the far right, fed by bots and fuelled with misinformation. If you live in London you will notice that every local newspaper comments page is filled with this stuff, claiming that Sadiq Khan is introducing Sharia law, the massive ‘London is not safe’ nonsense, and halal hysteria.

People should not be writing fake bad reviews as an anti-Islam / Muslims campaign. But they do. It makes them feel big and clever while they wave their flags.

We need to be more critical of misinformation and online reviews.

Stunning is not an optional extra under our law for non-religious meat, due to animal welfare concerns.

It should not be an optional extra for any slaughter house.

What other modern day parallels with 1930s Germany have you noticed?

I'm noticing quite a few affecting the Jewish community. How about you?

The vast majority of halal meat is stunned.

Halal meat in supermarkets is labelled as that though? I assume you don't usually eat meat when eating out as very few restaurants use free range meat.