To absolutely loathe the increase in smear campaigns against businesses because of the halal meat debate?

I already have explained my view in many posts. Making the assumption that other who do not hold the same opinion as you or hold an opinion different to you is a bigot, is a massive problem and I would say that in itself is bigoted in its own way.

Ah yes, because it’s a takeover and we’re all days away from sharia law.

Cheap slaughter is cheap slaughter, and cruel no matter what. The only reason people have an issue is because it’s a Muslim practice.

Atheism is not a religion. It’s wanting an absence of religion. Some atheists are more actively seeking that and others don’t really care which is fine too.
I find it very strange that we pretend that muslim practises on slaughterhouses and meat slaughtered for Muslims is completely acceptable for the entire uk population and those who oppose are racist or bigoted.

The halal option should be made clear for muslim pupils and other meat for other non Muslim.

Atheism is not a religion. It’s wanting an absence of religion. Some atheists are more actively seeking that and others don’t really care which is fine too.
I find it very strange that we pretend that muslim practises on slaughterhouses and meat slaughtered for Muslims is completely acceptable for the entire uk population and those who oppose are racist or bigoted.

I'm not trying to be clever - I'm trying to have a conversation.

I could have used Fifty Shades as an example - I used political writers because people tend to feel as strongly about politics as they do about religion.

But yes - Fifty Shades is just as valid an example - so would you object to Fifty Shades being read at slaughter or is it just religious texts or texts that have meaning to large groups of people?

And, as an atheist, why do religious texts bother you?

I'm asking you because the only atheists I know in real life who object to Halal have somewhat bigoted views against Islam for non-religious reasons (and yes I have had those discussions with them and it is something we agree to disagree on). The one's that don't have bigoted views don't object to pre-stunned Halal.

I don't know any atheists in real life who don't have bigoted views against Islam who object to Halal like you claim to do - hence me trying to have the conversation.

However, you have made it clear you don't wish to engage in an actual conversation which is fair enough 💁

Atheism, for some people, is its own form of religion. Just as people of Religion A might feel a strong visceral opposition to a practice from Religion B, atheists often feel the same way about a practice from any religion even when it's not really consequential in any material way. It isn't logical, as they're the ones who don't believe there is any will or power, divine or otherwise, behind any of it to be displeased, so at most it's just someone saying pointless words that have no impact on anything. But if atheism is, in its way, equivalent to religious belief - and for many people it is - then that's why people feel the same reaction against it.

I think I have answered your posts. You are writing under pretence that you really want to understand, then maybe understand that don’t understand? I mean, your next post could be asking if I object to fixity shades of grey being read during slaughter. Your posts are not as clever as you think.

What I am saying is that beyond religion or bigotry, I do not have an understanding of any other reason why someone wouldn't eat pre-stunned Halal meat if they would eat other supermarket meat (people who cite animal welfare would likely not eat any supermarket meat, so that argument doesn't come into play here)

I'm not saying you are a bigot - I don't know you and you don't know me.

What I am saying is that without any thing further to go on, I will assume that anyone who claims to be an atheist who has a problem with Halal does so a reason that is bigoted. That's what people do - we make assumptions about others based on what we know about them.

I can assume what I like about you based on what you have written.

It won't make a difference to you - you don't have to care about my opinion. We are two people on the internet who will likely never meet in real life.

Personally I find differences of opinion really interesting. I think the world would be an incredibly boring place if we all thought the same. If people didn't talk about different view points and come to understandings, we would all live in our little homogenous echo chambers living bland little lives and throwing hatred and contempt around.

Listening to and talking about those different views, debating and understanding how others think, even if we don't personally think that way or agree with it is how we get to live harmoniously in a vibrant world. You find the common thread and then figure out how to live with the differences.

You do not need to try and convince me of anything - I was asking the question out of a desire to understand your view point, but if you do not want to talk about that view point, you don't have to, just as I don't have to take you at your word that the view you don't want to talk about is one that is valid in my mind.

Most of the people who care passionately about this issue don’t give a shit about animal welfare. If they did, they’d be vegan, because non-halal slaughter is also grim, as is dairy farming. It’s just another stick to beat Muslims with, and the relatively recent extension of their “concerns” to Kosher meat is just an attempt to mask their real intentions.

They’re the same people who are desperately concerned about women and girls’ safety and rights when it comes to Asian grooming gangs, but oddly silent about (or act completely contrary to) women and girls’ safety and rights the rest of the time.

I have no objections to food being clearly labelled either. On the contrary, I think it would be a good development, but I would like to see a broader system that takes into account the conditions of the animal's life and not just its death. We could perhaps have a ratings system, a bit like we do with food hygiene. Then consumers could make genuinely informed choices about what they eat.

So people who do not agree with you are bigoted if they are not fully giving an explanation accepted by you? This is what you saying, isn’t it? I need to convince you why as an atheist I do not want to eat halal or I am a bigot.

This is quite controlling. Buy the halal or explain why. I’m not sure why people take this position on here.

Fortunately if labelling catches up with consumer opinion you’ll not know who buys what, only if demand goes down.

The animal welfare position I understand.

But it is the prayer bit I don't - how are the words being imposed on you?

If they hold no meaning, how does it make any difference? And would you feel the same about sitting and eating with a Muslim person who said those words over the table prior to eating?

I am genuinely trying to understand why you feel that way?

I mean - would you take issue with someone reading from Marx or Rousseau because they were imposing left wing ideology on you or from Burk or Hayek because they were imposing right wing ideology while they were slaughtering an animal or is it just religious texts?

Would you have an issue with a simple gratitude form of words if it didn't have an organised religious connotation?

Yes - that is my view at the moment because I cannot see any other reason other than religion or bigotry why a meat eater who cares about animal welfare would not eat pre-stunned Halal meat.

I am happy to have my mind changed about that - hence asking why an atheist would object to what is simply a handful of words and having a conversation. As I said, having conversations with people who have different views has caused me to change my mind in the past and rethink my stance on things.

A reply along the lines of "I don't have to tell you" is fine people are perfectly entitled keep their reasons to themselves.

However, I am just as entitled to assume that a meat eater who has declared themselves to not be religious, buys meat from the supermarket but would refuse to buy pre-stunned Halal meat and refuses to discuss the reasons why in a perfectly polite conversation is doing so because their reasons are in fact bigoted and they know it.

1. Animal welfare. I eat very little meat and dairy, but when I do I try to buy the most ethically produced products. The reason I am practically a vegan, is because I found this too difficult to navigate.

2. I find it bizarre that we have Muslim prayers in slaughterhouses in the Uk and that this is becoming bc a norm. You said as an atheist, you do not care. As an atheist I do care and I dont follow why I shouldn’t care as prayers are meaningless for me. It’s not meaningless if imposed on me (indirectly or directly).

Yes - that is my view at the moment because I cannot see any other reason other than religion or bigotry why a meat eater who cares about animal welfare would not eat pre-stunned Halal meat.

I am happy to have my mind changed about that - hence asking why an atheist would object to what is simply a handful of words and having a conversation. As I said, having conversations with people who have different views has caused me to change my mind in the past and rethink my stance on things.

A reply along the lines of "I don't have to tell you" is fine people are perfectly entitled keep their reasons to themselves.

However, I am just as entitled to assume that a meat eater who has declared themselves to not be religious, buys meat from the supermarket but would refuse to buy pre-stunned Halal meat and refuses to discuss the reasons why in a perfectly polite conversation is doing so because their reasons are in fact bigoted and they know it.

Yeah think something on the door. But that's now attracting him customers. Someone also went and cleaned off the eggs for him

This desire for understanding doesn’t really tally with your earlier post

‘Anyone who then avoided stunned Halal couldn't argue animal welfare and could be called out for the clear bigot's they are - particularly if they are not religious (like over 50% of the country)’

Nobody needs to explain anything - I am just interested as to why.

I have had conversations with Muslims about their beliefs and why they believe them and some really interesting conversations with Jehovah's Witnesses as to why they believe what they do - particularly around not celebrating Christmas and Birthdays.

I have also had conversations with people from different sides of the political spectrum and different backgrounds to me as to where their beliefs, ideas and views come from.

Sometimes that has led me to change my mind about things or think of things differently, sometimes listening to my views has changed other peoples minds

Having conversations about what people believe and why leads to greater understanding and a much more peaceful and cohesive world generally.

Nobody needs to explain anything - I am just interested as to why.

I have had conversations with Muslims about their beliefs and why they believe them and some really interesting conversations with Jehovah's Witnesses as to why they believe what they do - particularly around not celebrating Christmas and Birthdays.

I have also had conversations with people from different sides of the political spectrum and different backgrounds to me as to where their beliefs, ideas and views come from.

Sometimes that has led me to change my mind about things or think of things differently, sometimes listening to my views has changed other peoples minds

Having conversations about what people believe and why leads to greater understanding and a much more peaceful and cohesive world generally.

I don’t care what colour anyone is, what sky fairy they do or don’t believe in.
I do care passionately about animal welfare and think we can do better.

this thread is exactly why you can’t say it in real life though, because you get lumped in with “a type”.