To absolutely loathe the increase in smear campaigns against businesses because of the halal meat debate?

Right. I don’t know what that is maybe they were handing out something else.

Most people in church hearing someone bless a wafer as the body of Christ isn’t going to think yeh I’ll line up even though they don’t believe.

It’s the same for halal. People would like to opt out of the religious ritual. People should accept that want to.

Lots of people who aren't very familiar with church rituals might just assume that they should follow whatever everyone else is doing in order to be polite/respectful.

My (Sikh) DH assumed that he should cross himself when we went to a funeral in a Catholic Church because that's what he saw everyone else doing and he wanted to show respect.

It was a church learning event, everyone was encouraged to get up.

Why the third degree?

You’d have to go up to the religious person offering it, rather than stay sitting in a pew. Why would you hear the words spoken and think yes I’ll get up and join in the line to have this?

Yes, and as I've repeatedly said, I think halal and kosher meat should be clearly labelled as such. That will help Muslim and Jewish people who will obviously need to know what they're eating. It will also help Sikhs who are not permitted to eat ritually slaughtered meat.

I am not arguing that anyone should have to eat something that they don't want to eat. I am objecting to people pretending that animal welfare is the reason for their objections, when they are showing by their other choices that they don't actually give a toss about the welfare of animals. It's a bit like all of the far right types suddenly pretending that they care about women's rights. It is so obviously disingenuous.

It's likely stunned though. Especially if in a UK supermarket.

Kosher meat is never stunned and not counted as kosher if it is from certain parts of the animal. So you could definitely consume unstunned, unlabelled meat that was slaughtered for the kosher market. Less likely that you will find unstunned and unlabelled halal meat.

I was offered it I guess, so I took it.

Then they should have to figure that out within their communities.

Why did you do that? It’s not compulsory.

Yes, I’ve had the wafer in a church.

It wasn’t holy to me, it was a bit of wafer, made no difference to me.

It’s not labelled. I have to actively research to find out if it’s halal or not. I buy from Waitrose as I do not believe their meat is halal except perhaps lamb which I never buy anyway.

Why does it have to be solely that? It’s a religious ritual.

Good question. I suspect that most people aren't aware of the subtleties, just that there are questions over cruelty and those questions are connected with religious beliefs maybe. Or that's how they are seen.

I imagine it would be a concern for Jewish people in the UK.

Because it isn't really about animal welfare.

If someone offered you the holy communion would you take it?

Loaded maybe but accurate.

So why do people call it the "halal meat debate" when:

A) most halal meat is stunned
B) meaning the unlabelled halal meat on the market has likely been stunned
C) kosher meat is not ever stunned and routinely unlabelled.

Why isnt it the stunned meat debate? Or the halal and kosher debate?

The letter is a bit loaded. I’m sure when people say no thanks to the holy communion the reaction isn’t the same.

Yes Jewish and Muslim bodies have been calling for labelling around stunning for some time.

Here is a letter from 2014 to the FSA:

In their letter, the MCB and Shechita said meat labelling should clearly state whether animals had been mechanically stunned prior to slaughter. It states: "They [consumers] should be told the method of slaughter: captive bolt shooting, gassing, electrocution, drowning, trapping, clubbing or any other approved methods."

The groups said that animal welfare groups should also support such comprehensive labelling.

"It would offer all consumers genuine choice, whether they are motivated by animal welfare, religious observance, or even intolerance of anyone who looks or worships differently to them," the letter said.

Hard disagree. There are laws about the slaughtering of animals in the UK, there should be no exemptions.

That can be labelled too as it’s sold here.

And everyone can make informed decisions. I don’t see there’s a problem with doing that.

Money. Ensuring that your meat is slaughtered according to halal standards opens up your market to a wider range of customers.

Selling the non-kosher parts of the animal on the general market reduces waste.

Yes except for the fact that the issue many of us have is with meat that isnt stunned vs meat that has been prayed to. I don't think it is much of a concern if kosher meat becomes very expensive to those who feel it necessary to purchase it.

I don’t want any religion brought into products that are for the general public. Unless the restaurants are kosher or halal or supermarkets have a niche section so you would know what you are getting, the rest (the majority) should be as before. This is not a Jewish or Muslim country, why is this not even a thing?