Sons Sporting Ambition Thwarted?

Football is dominated by state school players though. I think about 95% in Premier league. What's to stop your child putting in the additional hours outside of school. State schools have a shorter school day so it's very doable.

I think many people are discounting just what a huge impact local sports clubs have on grassroots talent identification and development. Yes public schools have great facilities and specialist coaches but more often then not its the volunteer coach at the local club who takes on any kids who fancy a go who are the ones who see potental and then light a fire under it insofar developing the basic skills, and opening doors to the various pathways to the next level and explaining to parents what the commitment is to get there. Read any sports autobiography and the chances are they will reference the under 12s coach at their local club who encouraged them to take the sport seriously.

I coach at my local rowing club, we have a juniors section that is mostly made of the demographics of the area. Yes there are a few private school kids who got an earlier introduction to the sport but most of the kids who have passed through us and gone on to GB representation and Henley finals were kids from the local comp. Even the ones who did not get to GB level ended up with sports scholarships to a US University. Not bad for the kid from the local estate who was tempted to sack in school at 16.

I was just coming on to say that kids from private schools are over-represented in chess. Most schools don't have a teacher with the knowledge to run a chess club, so it has to be external and paid for - and private schools are much more likely to have enough parents willing to pay. Once you get good there's travel/hotels etc if you go around the country to pay - it all adds up.

Most NGBs have talent development pathways because they want to be able to select from the widest possible pool. Make sure you’ve read up on the website what that is. As per your last post, as long as he’s enjoying it and sticks at it, most school boys will drop out long before National u19 u21 whatever the level is.

My son reached national standard in his sport through club support whilst at a state school.
I think the better facilities,tuition and emphasis on sport in private schools gives clear advantages , but its not the bee all and end all. My advice is find the right club support for your sons stage of development and ability.
Or look at a sports scholarship to an independent school that would suit his needs. My son was offered a sports scholarship to an independent school ,he chose not to take it ,my daughter chose to take a scholarship (same sport) and my son did better in the sport than my daughter and they both did equally well academically.
We found many private school kids were tutored to the hilt in their chosen sport but eventually plateau out and others with talent,dedication,resilience and a burning passion for their sport from less advantageous backgrounds got a chance and many excelled.
The struggle can have advantages in mental toughness.
Good luck to your son.

I think the only sport that is genuinely needs blind in UK is football. And that is reflected in the make up of top teams. Scouts identify very young children and the families are supported financially in helping the child develop. Even here though you need to have a parent or family friend or teacher committed enough to get the five year old noticed at the start - and that will exclude many children.

It is vary easy to point to privilege as the reason for a child’s success. But that privilege exists at many levels. Having committed parents who expose a child to a sport early enough. Having enough money to access decent training, travel to matches, buy the kit etc. I do not see it as a private/state issue.

DN was an elite rugy player. Pathway was committed father and cousins who played. Local club. Academy side. His school did not play rugby. He - and a number of boys from similar pathways - got scholarships/ means tested bursary to a well known school for sixth form. But the elite level training was still from the academy set up. The school matches he played were usually at least half academy players supported by some school grown talent v similar teams from other schools offering similar programs. They did not even field the academy players against less strong teams.

Hockey, netball , volleyball , football , basketball , athletics , dance , table tennis, pretty much state school sports in our area.

Sam Warburton's got some great stuff to say around this, as a successful state school sportsman (albeit a state school which had good facilities and support). Look at other successful state school professionals in your son's sport for their inspiration and advice, look at their autobiographies.

For some nuggets from Sam Warburton that I've shared with my teen son on instagram:

"it takes a certain person to get to the top" "people think it's just talent that gets you there alone. Talent's great, talent's the catalyst that you might need but if you're not willing to work.... mate I've seen so many guys, I wasn't the best guy in Cardiff growing up but I was just the hardest working and the most committed and I was willing to do it for the longest amount of time and if you're just willing to stay in that fight and that grind for a long time you just beat so many people from work ethic alone... there's a number one denominator, key denominator to all successful rugby players from when I've been in changing rooms with them and it's resilience mate, they just all keep going, refuse to give up, refuse to be told no. And no one has an upwards trajectory, I think people look at pros and think they've had it easy, that they've always been selected, they're always on this upwards trajectory all the way through their youth career all the way through to senior but it's not. They've all got bumps but they've all just had this stubborness and resilience to keep going and that's why they reach the top so when you're in a dressing room with all those lads it's a pretty powerful place because they're pretty tough. And I don't mean fight tough I mean mentally tough and that's a great place to be."

Sam's also talked about how far ahead young players can get if they're willing to do what other players aren't with regards to number of hours in the gym, attitude to training etc. Not expecting the world to fall at your feet. If you're willing to put in 2 years when no one's looking, like if you're dropped at 16, you've got 2 years to build your athleticism when others might not. "The common mindset I've seen in everyone who gets to the top, when you're at school hard work is not really that cool. But when you're in a pro environment, hard work is pretty cool."

I can absolutely understand where you're coming from and maybe he won't have the career he hoped for but there's some excellent advice and mentorship out there from people who aren't from a more privileged background.

My sons also go to state schools, they both love rugby. They're not pursuing it as a career so it's not as pressured but they do want to be the best that they can be so they can enjoy playing decent club rugby alongside careers in other fields. They've had far fewer opportunities to play for their school than their friends who are in the local Welsh language school because there are fewer boys interested in doing the sport.

As well as sport specific inspiration and support, I'd also recommend having a look at the work The 93% Club are doing.

I'd agree with this too, and the key point for me is the flexibility. You were able to facilitate because of that, and it makes a massive difference. We do remind ours on occasion that yes, owning our own business means every now and then they have to compromise, but it also means that 99% of the time one of us can drive them the 45 minute each way trip to training 3 week nights a week...wait around for however long and drive then back. And at weekends, one or other of us can stand around on a beach or riverbank for days, or travel with them for the weekend. Not everyone can, and not being able to say yes to all opportunities has an impact. Similarly, being able to afford the gym membership, and the equipment etc to train at home.

Most success is a combination of talent, grit and investment (of time, money and effort). Only the first 2 are within the athlete's control.

You may find that many of the children playing for the private schools are there on sports scholarships / burseries. My son was scouted at county / regional level and had his fees paid along with many others.
We weren't rich but he trained daily even before he was scouted and the effort and work he put into his sport was huge. He also played at academy level and at each stage there are coaches watching for any new talent. He didn't start his sport very young but had the strength and body type they could work with.

Whilst I agree that private school pupils have massive advantages when it comes to gaining access to national teams in most sports I think you should be concentrating on the benefits of sport that everyone can have access to.

My DH is an ex-professional sports player and he has always encouraged our DC to participate in sports for the fun of it all. The increase in self confidence, being part of a team, and making lifelong friendships are the benefits of sport. Most professional sport people have fairly short careers so surely it is better to enjoy sport for what it gives you rather than thinking about it in professional terms?

He didn’t have the opportunities to take advantage of. Your kids obviously go to private school.

You're missing the point. That's what.

The other boys have spent more years, longer hours and more practice against higher level opponents because the other boys have financial advantages, which makes it easier for them to shine.

Of course hard work, practice and most of all talent are what separate the best from the rest, but opportunities to nurture the talent are much greater for those who have advantages financially in many areas

I think this goes in the life is unfair bucket. Who knows if my primary school had offered Lacrosse maybe I would have been world Lacrosse champion.

I think it's very area dependent. I know lots of hockey players, none of them went to private school.

Hockey was one of the bog standard sports taught to both boys and girls in the area I grew up in. We had matches against other schools so it wasn't like my comprehensive was an anomaly in the area.

Does he ever have private one to one coaching for his sport. To help him with techniques etc. That could help, even if a team sport. Does he attend holiday camps to improve too, with different coaches? This could all be beneficial, as well as finding a more competitive club. Being a sport parent is hard. It’s a minefield and very competitive and routes to success aren’t always clear. Don’t beat yourself up.

Polo!?!?!?

Do you know many state schools that play polo from year 7?

More likely to be cricket

Same with the arts, sadly. Yes, talent and hard work are important. But money allows those with talent and hard work to achieve.

Thing is you have to look at why state schools are offering such a woeful level of physical activity in many cases. There is undoubtedly an advantage for children at private school but those schools tend to actively dedicate time and resources, have larger grounds. There should be funding and provision for the primaries to do more.

One of my children has moved from a state primary (that is quite sport focused) to a prep and the difference is massive. There is just more opportunity and often more teams so the elite kids get pushed and the other ones can develop. She’d never played netball when she moved. The prep girls had been doing it since 7 but she has found a place in a team and still been able to develop and represent the school.

She does at least an hour often 2 of sport every day. At her primary she had one hour of PE with a specialist pe coach and half an hour of ‘movement’ with her class teacher. She will never be an elite athlete aiming for county or beyond but she is much more active and has been able to do so many different types of sport and it’s been good for her.

Isn’t there other coaching he could get? Small group or private - much cheaper than school fees! My son was borderline for getting into a club for his sport at competitive level (to be clear nowhere near as good as yours) and I checked out all the coaching options around and drive him a bit further to get great coaching in the holidays and get him to good more local one weekly. There are also coaching academies you have to try out to get in with weekly coaching sessions. Also, have you asked the other club to assess him? Can he try out and join if he gets into the team so he doesn’t have to leave his club first and possibly get stuck with no team?
it can’t be too outing to say the sport?

That is every aspect of life.

My neighbours drive a brand new merc because they can afford it. I drive a battered old car.

My friend lives in a huge house in a lovely village. I live in a suburb outside a city.

Life is not equal or fair.

We can all just make the most of what we do have.

I couldn't agree more.

Yes I agree with this. Specialising early often leads to worse outcomes overall, particularly in terms of having to retire a sport early due to injury.
My daughter’s sport is football, but she still plays hockey/netball/cricket for the school teams, because she enjoys them. Above all it’s supposed to be fun.

and what if you apply to one of the private schools on a sporting scholarship?

I haven’t read the whole thread but IME the kids who are standout stars at a sport tend to have started training in it at age 3-6. So actually well before the private schools start it. And the training they get at their club outside of school is generally far better than the private school coaching (although of course the extra practice at school helps). Usually they have very sporty parents who will have passed on sporty genes, competitiveness and will probably be spending hours at the weekend practising skills with them - on top of the training at club and school.

What I’m saying is that the private school doing X sport is not the main factor. Early training and parental dedication (slash pushiness) are the main factors. There may well be a big overlap between the type of families who get their kids into X sport at 3 years old and the type who go to private school. But that doesn’t mean it’s the school that’s creating the ability.